1935 Rokuoh-Sha Echo Pearlette Shutter Needs Repair

[Akagi]

I had gotten this camera off eBay 2 years ago and it worked amazingly! however a year ago, i attached a shutter cable to it, tested to see how'd it work bc i never used one. and like a dummy, pushed the lever too far and a inner spring dislodged and the shutter doesn't fire.

since then I've been goin in and trying to fix it and was puzzled how it even worked until today i got the lever and shutter system to semi function and got a understanding of how it all worked. but seen in the image it gets stuck mid cycle. I'm not sure what the issue is, if the spring is just not strong enough, or the second spring visible for the F-stops is supposed to finish the cycle somehow.

would appreciate some help on this, i feel really close to fixing this camera and its already took too long for a possible easy fix. wish i could attach a video, would make explaining easier

#prewar #Rokouhsha #127filmcamera #help #repair

 

[koraks]

Welcome aboard @Akagi!
I've moved your thread to the Camera Repairs section in the hope that someone might come along and recognize this issue.

 

[Akagi]

Welcome aboard @Akagi!
I've moved your thread to the Camera Repairs section in the hope that someone might come along and recognize this issue.

appreciate it!

 

[loccdor]

These old springs can often be a problem. I had a Seagull folding camera where the spring simply broke.

It looks like it has experienced some corrosion. That can make it hard for the parts to move smoothly. I've gotten shutters to work by adding clock/watch oil in very small amounts and exercising them, but there are also many on this forum who will recommend against it. That lens definitely looks like it needs a cleaning.

 

[Akagi]

These old springs can often be a problem. I had a Seagull folding camera where the spring simply broke.

It looks like it has experienced some corrosion. That can make it hard for the parts to move smoothly. I've gotten shutters to work by adding clock/watch oil in very small amounts and exercising them, but there are also many on this forum who will recommend against it. That lens definitely looks like it needs a cleaning.

the image of the camera intact is a old image, really its when i JUST got the camera and it needed cleaning. so it got a good cleaning when it was working.
i had a thought it could've been the F-stop spring snapped or the shutter spring was not strong enough. so i would believe the issue is that the shutter springs tension. although i have clock synthetic lube, i don't think i'll use it on this. if this is the issue, would be better trying to find a replacement spring. (doubt I'll find one or be able to make one)

 

[loccdor]

Can you get the shutter to fire by moving some of the parts with a mini-screwdriver push? The corrosion and dirt will cause friction which will make the parts have a more difficult travel. But if you can make the sequence work with the faceplate off, you're halfway there. If you're able to share videos of what the shutter internals look like when they move, that will give us additional clues.

 

[Akagi]

video of shutter "firing" https://mega.nz/file/faAjSJCB#Y7dYkK-uSe1z908HFNUcPezxkCVXQSc0dZol97-g6cQ
i wanted to share the video to begin with, but the file was too big. should've thought of this before hah. but yes, in the video the shutter's lever pushes the shutter mech into the first part of its cycle, but gets stuck or caught mid way intoi its cycle, and it needs a tiny little push to finish its cycle. a tiny tap is enough to make it continue, so this is why i thought the spring lost its tension or one of the disassemblings made something out of place.
seen in the video, the shutte4r mech has a little tab that sticks up, and this tracks over the crescent shape stud. and gets caught on the edge of this stud, before falling down under the stud and following that crescent edge pushing the shutter widows open and close as the shutter mech goes back to rest place.

 

[loccdor]

Thanks for sharing the video. I'm no expert but I don't think the spring strength is your problem. My opinion is that the parts that the spring interfaces with are too rough to slide with low friction. The right answer is to remove that part of the shutter, and ultrasonically clean it... if that's too advanced for you (it is for me) there's a good bet that a little oil and exercise on the parts would help it along its way.

This is how I fixed a Prontor-SVS shutter with stickiness a few weeks ago. It wasn't by the book but it worked. It looks like you just need a touch less friction which was my situation too.

 

[Akagi]

Thanks for sharing the video. I'm no expert but I don't think the spring strength is your problem. My opinion is that the parts that the spring interfaces with are too rough to slide with low friction. The right answer is to remove that part of the shutter, and ultrasonically clean it... if that's too advanced for you (it is for me) there's a good bet that a little oil and exercise on the parts would help it along its way.

This is how I fixed a Prontor-SVS shutter with stickiness a few weeks ago. It wasn't by the book but it worked. It looks like you just need a touch less friction which was my situation too.

honestly with all the little tiny things i mess with, i should have a ultrasonic thing. buttt i dont :/ i'll try a tiny dot of oil and see if that'll help it along.

EDIT: i tried it, added a dot of oil to the part of the spring that slide along the shutter mech and to the portion of the shutter mech that slides under larger brass shutter mech. and it cycles! not perfectly as expected, with the camera laying on its back the shutter catches, but standing up right gravity helps alot and it'll cycle better. but only better bc it can still catch but less often. https://mega.nz/file/mGA0RBzL#i5dNPN3gjrLq_RykuvypcH156wClbCs2Lv8LEyn6y2k

I'll call it "fixed" for now, but now is to figure out how to set the F-stop switch. https://mega.nz/file/yT5XgbIZ#YVfUrvTrmaBOz0th_uMSpdskDsTCZMVFt0SnBt17R2Y in this video i set the switch in place after pointing out it's spring. the spring itself was removed at one point and honestly, forgot its correct positioning. if i were to seal everything back up, the shutter mech system stops bc the long part of the wire jams the cycle.

 

[loccdor]

EDIT: i tried it, added a dot of oil to the part of the spring that slide along the shutter mech and to the portion of the shutter mech that slides under larger brass shutter mech. and it cycles! not perfectly as expected, with the camera laying on its back the shutter catches, but standing up right gravity helps alot and it'll cycle better. but only better bc it can still catch but less often.

Great! Needs a little bit more, or use a thin tool to spread it on more of the parts.

F-stop switch.

Do you mean the shutter speed selector? Looks like f-stop selector is at the bottom of the camera. If the location where you put that spring is where it really goes, its linkage has to be somewhere in the radius of where that spring can touch. Is it this little tab? That's the only thing I can see. I've been burned in the past by not taking pictures of every disassembly step.

 

[Akagi]

whoops, yes i meant the shutter speed selector my bad. so the spring does go there, its just I'm not sure what orientation or position it's meant to be in, bc either which way i position it, it jams the cycling. but yes the little blue mark you made is a little tab from the shutter mech. the shutter spring sits under that tab in a "fold" that the tab is connected to. however as mentioned, i even tried having the selector spring up on it like in that image you sent, and it'll jam itself. bc its hard to tell, to the right of the base the tab sits on to the middle is just flat metal that the spring can slip under. and the middle to left of that base is the mentioned "fold". and its when the spring gets caught in there does the cycle jam.

here's some more images. first is the shutter speed guide in place with the switch in place. second is without the guide, just the switch in place. third is a side profile of the switch. and fourth the shutter speed spring out in view resting in is "default position" based on the last time i opened up the camera for a fix attempt. in the same image you can see the little tab on the shutter mech. P.S. as for the shutter catching, i didnt add oil rather the large brass part to the right with the screw, i loosened the screw enough for the shutter to fire swiftly.

 

[loccdor]

I gave AI your 4th picture and asked it where the loose spring goes and what orientation. Here is what it said:



Based on the photo and the construction of Rokuoh-sha (Konishiroku) Pearlette leaf shutters, that loose wire spring is a detent / return spring for the shutter speed selector ring, not part of the escapement itself.

What the spring is doing​

That spring provides click-stops and rotational tension so the speed selector:

• snaps positively into each speed position
• doesn’t free-spin once set

Correct placement (from what’s visible)​

The spring is a torsion spring, and it installs like this:

1. The coil (the round loop)
   • Slips over the small vertical post you see near the center of the photo (the hollow brass post with threads).
   • The coil should sit flat against the brass plate.
2. The short straight leg
   • Rests against the underside of the speed selector ring (or a notch/tab on it).
   • This provides preload tension.
3. The longer hooked leg
   • Anchors into a small slot or notch in the shutter plate just to the left of that post (often hard to see until the selector ring is slightly rotated).
   • This leg must be fixed; it does not move once installed.

Orientation matters​

• The spring should be installed so that rotating the speed selector increases spring tension slightly, not relieves it.
• If installed backwards, the selector will feel loose or won’t hold speeds.

How to test before closing the shutter​

Before reassembling:

• Rotate the speed selector through its range.
• You should feel distinct clicks at each speed.
• The selector should return slightly when released, but not snap violently.

Common mistake​

Many people accidentally hook the long leg on top of the selector ring instead of under or beside it, which causes:

• erratic speed selection
• selector that won’t stay put