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I published Scratched Emulsion, a new resource for experimental/unusual darkroom techniques

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mrmekon

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I'm here to plug my new (non-commercial) reference site and ask for help from the community. The site is my quick notes and bookmarks on the unusual, experimental, and surreal side of darkroom work. It covers a bit of the whole spectrum, but darkroom printing is both what I really wanted to focus on, and where it's lacking the most detail.

site: Scratched Emulsion

If you'd like to help, I'm looking for any of:
  • new techniques that aren't already listed
  • more example photos for the existing sections (must have a copyright grant for sharing)
  • more reference/example links for the sections that have few
  • proof reading
Several of the sections relate to techniques I've heard about of seen before, but couldn't find any references when searching. I'm probably just using the wrong terms, but I would appreciate it if you have any leads for references for those empty sections. I'm sure a lot of it is lurking here in Photrio...

I hope it's of use to someone!
 
That's a commendable effort; good luck on further completing it!

I've not done a lot of reading yet, but the section on dry plate collodion doesn't seem right to me, and oddly it also leaves out wet plate (ambrotype and tintype are not the only wet plate processes; one can make negatives for instance as well).

With projects like these, one of the key challenges is structuring the work along a robust conceptual framework. What is your core on this?
 
I've not done a lot of reading yet, but the section on dry plate collodion doesn't seem right to me, and oddly it also leaves out wet plate (ambrotype and tintype are not the only wet plate processes; one can make negatives for instance as well).

I don't know anything about these except what I've read online... is the dry-plate info wrong, or badly worded?

I chose the alt-process techniques a bit arbitrarily... there are so many, and I don't want to just list them all, so I picked a handful that I think are 1) still actually used today, and 2) have a very unique look, or are a good base for other experiments.


With projects like these, one of the key challenges is structuring the work along a robust conceptual framework. What is your core on this?

The site is just my personal notes on "darkroom experimentation" expanded to be a bit more visually appealing, so no particularly strong intent.

My biggest interest is in finding unusual printing techniques, in part because they are so under-documented. I recently saw a beautiful print that turned out to be the "projection through newspaper cut-outs"... stupid simple, but the effect was incredible. That's the sort of thing that you might have learned word-of-mouth if you worked in a professional darkroom in the past, but didn't make the jump to the general knowledge of the internet.


A lot of work

Yep, and not where I expected. Finding and correctly attributing photos with permissive copyright licenses turned out to be 99% of the work.
 
is the dry-plate info wrong, or badly worded?

The way I read it, it's wrong as it confuses a number of things, starting with the title. Here's what it says:

dry-plate collodion (alternative photo process)​


Both ambrotypes and tintypes can be produced with an alternative collodion silver emulsion consisting of gelatin or albumen (egg white), which can be pre-coated and allowed to dry. The emulsion tends to be significantly slower than the wet-plate variant.
There's such a thing as 'dry plate', which in practice mostly means gelatin-based 'dry' emulsions. There's also such a thing as collodion, which in practice is virtually always wet plate, since collodion dry plate just wouldn't work very well (although attempts have been made; AFAIK they were usually not very satisfactory). This is in part (or perhaps entirely) why silver-halide systems are currently gelatin-based, as this did work for a dry formulation. Thus, while dry plate is not necessarily synonymous with gelatin and collodion is not necessarily synonymous with wet plate, collodion and gelatin are in fact mutually exclusive. The silver halide is either suspended in gelatin, or collodion, or another suitable carrier - like indeed albumen, although I'm not myself familiar with recording systems based on albumen (as opposed to printing processes where albumen is the carrier). So I'd split it out, distinguishing:
* Wet vs. dry
* The carrier/colloid/binder material
* Whether you're looking at a camera exposure system or a printing system.

The site is just my personal notes on "darkroom experimentation" expanded to be a bit more visually appealing, so no particularly strong intent.
Okay, I understand. Without wanting to be normative, I feel that's at the same time an advantage as well as a missed opportunity. The advantage is that it seemingly simplifies creating the repository; just put everything where you feel like it fits. The missed opportunity will manifest itself sooner or later (and I think sooner; see e.g. the example above) because there are plenty of opportunities to categorize this vast field - and without doing so, you will inevitably end up with a (lack of) structure that's impossible to navigate with confidence. In other words - people won't find what they're looking for even if you went through the effort of putting it up there.

unusual printing techniques, in part because they are so under-documented
Most of the techniques and processes (I'd distinguish between the two; see also above) I see on your page are to the best of my knowledge fairly well or even very extensively documented. One resource that you also extensively refer to is alternativephotography.com, which furthermore contains numerous links to additional literature in many of its articles. That's just one strand; if you look at the overall literature, online articles, forum posts and old mailing list archives, you'll find that there's a treasure trove of information on many of the things you briefly touch upon.

Indeed, I can very well imagine that the added value of your portal could be more along those lines: unlocking the vast amount of information that is available. But that's a different starting point than the (in my view doubtful) statement that there's a lack of information. On some techniques and processes, documentation is indeed poor. The example technique you mentioned is indeed one I never heard of, although it seems straightforward enough. Processes that are relatively poorly document are for instance the woodburytype and the autochrome process, although recent advances by dedicated enthusiasts (also reported here on Photrio) have started to fill this particular void quite effectively. Documenting those processes in detail, at least beyond what's already widely known about them, is a different enterprise and demands a different approach (and dedication of resources) than an encyclopedic approach - one favors depth while the other emphasizes breadth.

So at this point I would offer for consideration to you to decide what your project is really about and what ambition it has, and then structure and pursue it accordingly. In doing so, I would also recommend taking stock of similar endeavors that have already been undertaken, and asking the question whether it's feasible to contribute to those, and/or if they leave systematic gaps that can be filled in no other way than building a new repository from the ground up.
 
The way I read it, it's wrong as it confuses a number of things, starting with the title. Here's what it says:

There's such a thing as 'dry plate', which in practice mostly means gelatin-based 'dry' emulsions. There's also such a thing as collodion, which in practice is virtually always wet plate, since collodion dry plate just wouldn't work very well (although attempts have been made; AFAIK they were usually not very satisfactory).

Oh, I see, I have sources mentioning all three of "dry collodion", "dry collodion-albumen", and "gelatin dry plate", and I smashed them all together (in my head and on the page) without realizing they're rather different.

It doesn't seem like the terms for dry plates are very clearly defined... is a dry emulsion on darkened glass still an ambrotype, or is it a separate thing?

They're all a bit out of place on my site anyway, so I think I'll collapse the first three sections into one generic "collodion plate" family... glass/metal, wet/dry, gelatin/colloid, they're all emulsion-on-plate instead of emulsion-on-paper. This site isn't meant to be a history lesson.


In other words - people won't find what they're looking for even if you went through the effort of putting it up there.

The point is rather that you come to Scratched Emulsion exactly when you don't know what you're looking for. It's for people asking the question "what unusual things can I do in the darkroom?" The moment you find your thing, you should go somewhere else for actual details.

Thus, an important part of the design is that it's a single page. It's supposed to be taken in as a whole. The sections roll into each other without clear division on purpose.

I also expect a single-digit number of visitors per year, so best not to get ahead of myself hyper-optimizing. I spent more time replying to you here than anyone will ever spend on my page :smile:


Most of the techniques and processes (I'd distinguish between the two; see also above) I see on your page are to the best of my knowledge fairly well or even very extensively documented. One resource that you also extensively refer to is alternativephotography.com, which furthermore contains numerous links to additional literature in many of its articles. That's just one strand; if you look at the overall literature, online articles, forum posts and old mailing list archives, you'll find that there's a treasure trove of information on many of the things you briefly touch upon.

We're in agreement, except on one important definition: I consider discoverability a part of (well, linked to) documentation, and, while much is technically published on the internet, finding can be extremely hard. If it's written down somewhere where nobody will ever find it, is it really documented?

There are many things that are documented... on page 8 of an APUG thread 20 years ago, or in a Usenet post in 1994, or in a public-domain book on archive.org. You've probably collected quite a bit of that information yourself :smile:

As you say, I linked to alternativephotography.com from nearly every one of my reference sections, which is absolutely the prime source when you already know what you're looking for. It's rather too big and scattered to get a good summary, though, and that's the same for all of the large article-based sites. Both article-based sites and forums are highly temporal; if you subscribe to them and read them regularly you will eventually learn a great deal, but they're difficult places to get started, or to get a broad overview of a new domain.

The problem is significantly worse for experimental photography, specifically. If you want to follow in the footsteps of Ansel Adams, there are tons of very comprehensive books and sites and youtube channels to guide you. If you search for "experimental darkroom" (or "abstract" or "surreal"), you get the same handful of popular tricks over and over again... I hope you like solarizing prints, because that's the one. Some experiments become Instagram cool (film soup), but many wither away in obscurity on some university student's long-abandoned blog.

That's exactly where this project came from. Every time I see experimental prints I try again to search for ways to introduce surreality into the darkroom, but Search Engine Optimization works against me. The information is there, it's just hard to surface. This is my first stab at surfacing some of it.



On some techniques and processes, documentation is indeed poor. The example technique you mentioned is indeed one I never heard of, although it seems straightforward enough. Processes that are relatively poorly document are for instance the woodburytype and the autochrome process, although recent advances by dedicated enthusiasts (also reported here on Photrio) have started to fill this particular void quite effectively.

Oh, these are neat! This brings up the challenging question of deciding when something is possible-enough to be included. I only want things that can be practically done today, and "practical" is pretty hard to define.


So at this point I would offer for consideration to you to decide what your project is really about and what ambition it has, and then structure and pursue it accordingly. In doing so, I would also recommend taking stock of similar endeavors that have already been undertaken, and asking the question whether it's feasible to contribute to those, and/or if they leave systematic gaps that can be filled in no other way than building a new repository from the ground up.

I thought about using the word "glossary", though I don't really like its connotations. It might convey the intention better. There's absolutely no intent to compete with the existing resources; the point is to drive traffic to them. And, ideally, more to the individual artists, when possible.

You used "portal", which is maybe a better word. I see its practical value as an in-between, when you know you want to "experiment" but you don't yet know what that means. Or when you've just learned about one technique (cough solarization), and wonder what other options you have.
 
It doesn't seem like the terms for dry plates are very clearly defined... is a dry emulsion on darkened glass still an ambrotype, or is it a separate thing?
Careful; in the formulation you're now running the risk of unnecessarily complicating things.
An ambrotype is generally understood as a silver-based image on a glass plate with a dark backing, and the mode of creation is generally through a wet collodion process. That an initially wet plate at some point dries up, doesn't change the fact that it's a subtype of 'wet plate'.
One question that your formulation brings is whether a silver-based image embedded in something else than a thin layer of collodion on a glass plate with a dark backing would still be an ambrotype. I don't know, and I suspect it would depend on who you asked.

they're all emulsion-on-plate instead of emulsion-on-paper.
Or emulsion on film, or a ceramic material, or metal...

Thus, an important part of the design is that it's a single page.
Okay, so the emphasis is on variety and not on depth. Your present layout certainly suits the purpose and brevity within the categories would be preferable. The question is whether, given the vast number of possibilities, it's feasible / productive to try and keep it all on one page. It will be a very, very big page that's very complicated and difficult to navigate, even if you keep entries short.

I only want things that can be practically done today, and "practical" is pretty hard to define.
Yep, that would be an inclusion problem and I think those will be tricky to resolve. Autochrome would have been firmly excluded up to 10 years ago or so because nobody knew exactly how to do it. Currently it would probably have to be included because it was in a way rediscovered. So is exclusion based on lack of information a good criterion? I guess that depends. If you only want to include things that can be reproduced cookbook-style, then yes.

You used "portal", which is maybe a better word.
Of course, the term 'portal' implies that it's a gateway to other sources of information and I definitely see a lot of added value in that. The project could essentially be a linktree with a little explanation to go with each group of links. That would IMO fill a niche that's currently not very well covered, at least not to the best of my knowledge.

Given the nature of the project, I would consider some kind of wiki-like approach that allows (almost) direct editing by the community. You'd probably have to work in a system of approval or redaction to avoid abuse etc. and also to keep things sufficiently short. But I think it would benefit from including the knowledge of everyone instead of relying on just one person to have to prepare all the content.
 
Okay, so the emphasis is on variety and not on depth. Your present layout certainly suits the purpose and brevity within the categories would be preferable. The question is whether, given the vast number of possibilities, it's feasible / productive to try and keep it all on one page. It will be a very, very big page that's very complicated and difficult to navigate, even if you keep entries short.

If it ever grows to an unwieldy size, that will be a good problem to have :smile:

I don't think people always appreciate the value of a great, big, long list. Sometimes it's exactly the right experience!


Currently it would probably have to be included because it was in a way rediscovered. So is exclusion based on lack of information a good criterion? I guess that depends. If you only want to include things that can be reproduced cookbook-style, then yes.

Being possible doesn't mean it must be listed, and being difficult doesn't mean it mustn't be. The sweet spot lies somewhere in the middle.


Of course, the term 'portal' implies that it's a gateway to other sources of information and I definitely see a lot of added value in that. The project could essentially be a linktree with a little explanation to go with each group of links. That would IMO fill a niche that's currently not very well covered, at least not to the best of my knowledge.

Given the nature of the project, I would consider some kind of wiki-like approach that allows (almost) direct editing by the community. You'd probably have to work in a system of approval or redaction to avoid abuse etc. and also to keep things sufficiently short. But I think it would benefit from including the knowledge of everyone instead of relying on just one person to have to prepare all the content.

I can certainly see the value of a crowd-sourced wiki/zettlekasten style, though those really shine when there's a lot more information than I currently have. If I were addressing the topic of all "analog workflows", that's exactly what I'd go for.

For the experimental/surreal/fringe focus, I think the overhead surpasses the benefit. That could change in the future if I stumble upon a trove of new information :smile:

Nobody popped into this thread or my reddit thread with their own special techniques to share, so I'm guessing that's not going to happen!
 
I'm here to plug my new (non-commercial) reference site and ask for help from the community. The site is my quick notes and bookmarks on the unusual, experimental, and surreal side of darkroom work. It covers a bit of the whole spectrum, but darkroom printing is both what I really wanted to focus on, and where it's lacking the most detail.

site: Scratched Emulsion

If you'd like to help, I'm looking for any of:
  • new techniques that aren't already listed
  • more example photos for the existing sections (must have a copyright grant for sharing)
  • more reference/example links for the sections that have few
  • proof reading
Several of the sections relate to techniques I've heard about of seen before, but couldn't find any references when searching. I'm probably just using the wrong terms, but I would appreciate it if you have any leads for references for those empty sections. I'm sure a lot of it is lurking here in Photrio...

I hope it's of use to someone!

Very cool, is it ok to put this up on my FB page?
 
For your reference to find more content that may interest you, I’ve put together some Non-Silver Imaging Systems based on some industry and academic books(e.g. Light-Sensitive Systems: Chemistry and Application of Nonsilver Halide Photographic Processes Contents). The list includes both enduring photographic Industry/alternative photographic methods(Such as Dichromate) and certain techniques with more limited industrial use(Such as Photosensitive Resin in printing and Chalcogenide Glass in Blu-ray Recordable Disc). Hope you find this information useful.

Photosensitive Resin Imaging
- Photopolymerization
- Photocrosslinking
- Photodegradation
- Photopolymerization Adhesive Imaging

Free Radical Imaging
- Dye Formation
- Dye Bleaching

Diazo Imaging
Vesicular Imaging

Ferric Salt Photography
Chalcogenide Glass Imaging
Azide Imaging
Dichromate Imaging
Physical Development Imaging

Thermography
Thermoplastic Imaging
Photochromic Imaging
Photoluminescent Imaging
Xerography and Electrophotography
 
Very cool, is it ok to put this up on my FB page?

Of course, share it far and wide :smile:


How about Carbon Transfer, and the Ferroblend process? Need examples?

Yep, thanks, I'll probably add both of these. Both seem to have plenty of references, but they're probably too rare to have any Creative Commons-licensed images.

If you (or anyone else) have sample images that you're willing to license for non-commercial + non-modified sharing, I'd love those for any of the sections that are low on sample images.


For your reference to find more content that may interest you, I’ve put together some Non-Silver Imaging Systems based on some industry and academic books

Nice! I'll have a look through all of these myself. Most of them are probably a bit too far from the "practical darkroom" theme for this site, but not necessarily.

Thanks!
 
Of course, share it far and wide :smile:




Yep, thanks, I'll probably add both of these. Both seem to have plenty of references, but they're probably too rare to have any Creative Commons-licensed images.

If you (or anyone else) have sample images that you're willing to license for non-commercial + non-modified sharing, I'd love those for any of the sections that are low on sample images.




Nice! I'll have a look through all of these myself. Most of them are probably a bit too far from the "practical darkroom" theme for this site, but not necessarily.

Thanks!

No clue how to license my images.
 
No clue how to license my images.

Ah, well that's always handy to know even if you don't intend on doing it:

Basic copyright grants are easy-peasy, literally nothing more than a written statement: "I permit you to host and share this image on Scratched Emulsion" is enough. You can add restrictions like "for non-commercial use" and "non-modified, in its original form" as you see fit. You keep ownership, and explicitly grant or forbid specific rights to others, and can grant it to everybody or just certain individuals.

More formally, you can pick a pre-existing license written by actual lawyers, and declare "This photo shared under license <license name>" to license it to everyone under those terms. Creative Commons is an organization that publishes a bunch of formal licenses for sharing works, and they have a site to help you choose: Choose a License for Your Work

The one with the longest name is the most restrictive, and a safe default choice (for something you intend to share publicly): "This work licensed under CC BY-NC-ND 4.0". Breaking it down, it's:
- CC: a Creative Commons license
- BY: "By Attribution", meaning anybody who shares it must mention your name and the license
- NC: "Non-Commercial", doesn't apply to businesses or other for-profit uses
- ND: "No Derivatives", means it must be shared without substantial modification (ex: changing file types is permitted, cropping the image is not)

Keep in mind that copyright licenses are usually non-revokable: once you share, you usually can't unshare.
 
@mrmekon ,
Your post about licensing probably deserves its own thread!
 
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