Plan vs Planning

[bjorke]

I'm out for a few weeks shooting, and wrote some notes on my chaotic process... because the world's just that way.

 

[Vaughn]

Very cool image. I even try to keep the planning to a minimum...

 

[F4U]

D-Day, the invasion of Normandy was planned to the last detail. So was Apollo 13. In the end, both were "successful failures". At 68, I've decided paying for and reserving my cemetery plot has a 50-50 chance of being the exact geo-positioned 4x8 plot of dirt. Plans work out sometimes, and its good to have them. But as I recall my old boy scout motto, "be prepared"

 

[djdister]

You know what they say: "If you fail to plan, you are planning to fail"...

 

[Vetus]

The best purchase I've ever made with regard to wet feet are waterproof socks for when your Goretex boots are saturated.

 

[koraks]

@bjorke, I think this is an interesting topic you bring up. I hope you don't mind if I quote from the link you posted:

I'm working on a project far from home. While there have been many weeks of preparation, research, emails, written reflections on the purpose, detailed itinerary and contact lists, from the first day of raging thunderstorms and lightning strikes things have been: different. Not the plan.

But also: the plan. The real plan. To let the local gods have their way, and to simply be their herald. The research and expectations provide ideas of what could be, while the mud on my boots from the seven waterfalls of Yude tells me truths unavailable from my desk. The research just helps open my eyes a little to see past my over-organized location and shot lists.

As Eisenhower's often quoted: "plans are worthless. But planning is essential." The chaos is the organization.

If I paraphrase a bit, the purpose of the planning is to set the stage and provide direction, but the actual path the project takes is part of a bigger 'plan' that we cannot really influence - but that's at the same time essential. Planning is critical in getting the job done, but the outcome isn't worth the mud on your boots if it only reflects the planning, and not 'the plan'. Can I put it that way, or am I twisting your words beyond recognition?

'Spontaneity' comes to mind, and the somewhat ambiguous relationship a photographer may have with it.

 

[bjorke]

'Spontaneity' comes to mind, and the somewhat ambiguous relationship a photographer may have with it.

I have my project shot list. I write "NOT THE SHOT LIST" across the top as a reminder. If I get 30% of it and a bunch of other stuff -- about right.

 

[koraks]

I have my project shot list. I write "NOT THE SHOT LIST" across the top as a reminder. If I get 30% of it and a bunch of other stuff -- about right.

That sounds sensible to me.

How does your experience in cinematography influence your approach of this photographic project?

 

[bjorke]

That sounds sensible to me.

How does your experience in cinematography influence your approach of this photographic project?

The processes are very different! No art director. No director. No real script. No truck full of lights. No special effects or alignment issues or rental houses.

But in terms of editing a group of shots to explore ideas -- that's a little bit similar.

For years I've been intrigued at how audiences expect photos (outside of ads) to be "factual" but expect films to be "fictional."

 

[koraks]

For years I've been intrigued at how audiences expect photos (outside of ads) to be "factual" but expect films to be "fictional."

Oh, this is very interesting indeed. I can imagine 'audiences' break down into different segments; do you recognize different archetypal audiences with differing views in this matter?
What piques my interest, among others, is the present thread we have on Photrio about how much editing is justified. The responses overall imply that people are pretty much OK with whatever happens to an image, suggesting that at least on Photrio, the preference for factual photography doesn't necessarily hold. I wonder if that's an accurate assessment, and if so, how come the Photrio userbase apparently differs in this sense from the average.

 

[Vaughn]

Define factual photography. Is it the opposite of art photography?

 

[Sirius Glass]

If one has a plan, the real time situation may require real time planning or replaning.

 

[Vaughn]

If one has a plan, the real time situation may require real time planning or replaning.

If I am in a place like Death Valley, by plan is usually to head someplace particular sometime after breakfast. Or perhaps stay in one place all day and watch the light change...maybe set up the camera. If I go somewhere, I park, grab the gear, and start wandering up a canyon or whatever and see what's the light like until I run out of film or run out of light.

One of my nicest days in Death Valley was up in camp with constant winds up to 70 mph or so, in my van parked 90 degrees to the wind. The slider door was open on the lee side, with a view of Stovepipe Wells 2200 feet below me and the rest of Death Valley beyond. The wind was picking up dust at Stovepipe Wells and lifting it higher than my vantage point. A cooler full of beer, no need to get the cameras out (they'd become boxkites in this wind), and enjoy a wonderful visual display for the day! Back to photographing the next day with no wind (wind tore up a few tents in the campground, tho.)

Instead of planning and adjusting plans, I wander and make decisions on the move. My biggest decision is what camera to take (5x7, 8x10, or 11x14). For the redwoods, I decide to drive north or south, and figure out where to start my wander when I get in there. Below is the far end of a wander in Death Valley -- ended up at the backside of Manly Beacon, 1989. 16x20 silver gelatin print from 4x5; 150mm lens, TMax100, f45/64 @1/4 second, probably HC110 developer.

 

[Taylor Nankervis]

Planning for photography is a subject that occupied much of my formal art and professional production education decades ago. To this day, I have a plan of approach, an idea of concept and an objective to come away with what a record better than what the mind's eye envisioned. I cannot spend time theorising on what ifs or buts. My motto is "Just move it!".

I cannot make heads or tails of the sample image presented in post #1...

 

[awty]

I cannot make heads or tails of the sample image presented in post #1...

It lacks direction. You should have something to say, or it says nothing at all.
I'm always planning my plan.

 

[benjiboy]

You know what they say: "If you fail to plan, you are planning to fail"...

" You have to assume that every plan will fail, on first contact with the enemy ".

 

[koraks]

" You have to assume that every plan will fail, on first contact with the enemy ".

Reminds me of the sayings along the lines of "our plans were excellent, it's just that nobody explained to the enemy their role in it."

I cannot make heads or tails of the sample image presented in post #1...

That's odd. The visual logic seems pretty clear to me. Although I'd crop it a little on the left.

 

[Vaughn]

Planning for photography is a subject that occupied much of my formal art and professional production education decades ago. To this day, I have a plan of approach, an idea of concept and an objective to come away with what a record better than what the mind's eye envisioned. I cannot spend time theorising on what ifs or buts. My motto is "Just move it!".

I cannot make heads or tails of the sample image presented in post #1...

Perhaps that is the image-maker's idea. If one can make heads or tails of it, it probably is not representing chaos effectively. There is a wonderful horizontal light movement thru the image that runs counter to the vertical forms of the bamboo that throws tension throughout the chaos.

One does not usually represent the work of a typhoon with simplicity. Michael Kenna probably could.

YMMD

I plan to not plan, but often my planning fails and I have to make up a backup plan.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

A friend told me long ago to adhere to the 7 P's.

Proper Prior Planning Prevents P!ss Poor Performance.

Usually that is the case. But I like to wing it too. That can also be part of the plan.

 

[bjorke]

...ended up at the backside of Manly Beacon, 1989.

I may be wrong but I suspect that you could go out there and make an extremely similar shot today, and maybe for the next 1.3 million years? Assuming good health etc

When working with living subjects other than your own mind.... a narrower sense of time is helpful, and that's where plans come in.

Here's a manly back and a beacon, sort of. Yesterday, Satsumasendai Japan. (M10-R, 35 'lux 11726)

 

[Vaughn]

I may be wrong but I suspect that you could go out there and make an extremely similar shot today, and maybe for the next 1.3 million years? Assuming good health etc

When working with living subjects other than your own mind.... a narrower sense of time is helpful, and that's where plans come in.

Here's a manly back and a beacon, sort of. Yesterday, Satsumasendai Japan. (M10-R, 35 'lux 11726)

Very cool image. It has a touch of organized chaos, too.

I have enjoyed photographing under the redwoods along Prairie Creek since the late 70s. Mostly a 4 or 5 mile stretch and the areas around it. Slowed down the last few winters, but ready to wander with a camera this Fall. There were 300 year old maples I have had to say good-by to over the last 50 years. Openings in the canopy that once gathered light and are now closed. Pools reflecting the golden leaves of the maples disappear and reappear. The fallen redwood image below (1986): Jackie is long gone and the fallen redwood is now a raised forest floor, covered in huckleberry, oxalis, spruce, and such itself.

It has been wonderful experiencing 50 years of slow constant change along the creek. Layer that with the constant changing light, photographing in the redwoods becomes like stepping into a stream -- even at the same place, one can never step into the same stream twice. It has moved on. One can return time and time again and never make the same photograph.

 

[TomR55]

Just about every day that I shoot, I have a plan. The “plan” gets me to a location (or locations) with a purpose. Then, if the stars are aligned, I make images that were entirely unplanned—which often leads to new (and better?) ideas, and this results in additional “plans.” I note, in passing, that the purpose often remains unchanged—create images about stuff.