Bleach and Fix for C41/E6

[jejes]

I've been developing with Tetenal products for many years C41 and E6. I have used BX (Bleach + Fix) from tetenal for both processes. In the bottle says C41/E6. Now i've switched to Fujihunt chemicals and i wonder if it's compatible the Bleach from C41 to E6 ??

I suppose the FIX is the same for the two, but my main concern is Bleach. I would like to use C41 because i shoot negative mostly.

Thank You

 

[Spektrum]

Do I understand correctly that you used professional C-41 chemicals manufactured by Tetenal?

If you were writing about the amateur Tetenal Colortec C-41 kit, I'd be more concerned about the shelf life of that blix.
It's been a few years since they discontinued it.

But to answer your question: C-41 is C-41, and every bath should be compatible between manufacturers.
Some people on this forum use Kodak starters for professional FujiHunt C-41 developers, and they just need to recalculate the amount of starter because it's different than if they were using the original FujiHunt starter.

Personally, I'm currently using FujiHunt C-41 Developer Replenisher LV 60 AC and have used Pot Ferri bleach without any problems. I only had to use a stop bath and a sodium sulfite cleaning rinse between developer and bleach. I've now started using bleach made from a BX-Part 1 bottle from the ADOX C-Tec C-41 Kit (this is exactly the same as the old Tetenal Colortec C-41 kit). I separated these baths from each other because I don't want to use blix, but separate bleach and fixer.
I used sodium thiosulfate as a fixer, and now I use FujiHunt C-41 Negacolor RA Fixer & Relenisher.

 

[mshchem]

The chemicals may be similar but have different concentration/dilution. I use a Fuji Universal fixer for E6 and C41. The dilution is 1+9 for E6, 1+4 for C41.

It may work but I would not experiment considering the time and money invested. Chemicals are cheap.

 

[Spektrum]

Of course you are right but the OP asks if he can use Tetenal's BLIX C-41/E6 with FujiHunt developer. I included the comment about third-party starters working with FujiHunt developers because I read about it here on the forum.
The question isn't about the fixer and its dilutions.
Unfortunately, C-41 bleaches aren't cheap, which is why many people use cheap potassium ferricyanide or bleaches from other C-41 kits. These bleaches from kits have a very high film processing capacity and can last a very long time. I wouldn't say the same about Blix.

 

[mshchem]

In a pinch I used some Tetenal 3 bath developer with Fuji 6 other baths. Worked perfectly.

I'm not looking to pick a fight and I know what Photo Engineer said.........However, I suspect that the main reason we don't have blix in mainstream color processing is because the equipment people and the existing customers didn't want it........Not because of some quality defects.

I prefer Kodak Flexicolor and Fuji E6 chemistry, because I like the more complicated and I like the larger sizes, especially the developers.

 

[Samu]

I've been developing with Tetenal products for many years C41 and E6. I have used BX (Bleach + Fix) from tetenal for both processes. In the bottle says C41/E6. Now i've switched to Fujihunt chemicals and i wonder if it's compatible the Bleach from C41 to E6 ??

I suppose the FIX is the same for the two, but my main concern is Bleach. I would like to use C41 because i shoot negative mostly.

Thank You

E-6 uses iron EDTA bleach in combination with pre-bleach solution. Standard 6-bath E-6 process is not compatible with bleach types used in standard C-41 process, or with rapid bleach used in C-41RA,

 

[Samu]

The chemicals may be similar but have different concentration/dilution. I use a Fuji Universal fixer for E6 and C41. The dilution is 1+9 for E6, 1+4 for C41.

It may work but I would not experiment considering the time and money invested. Chemicals are cheap.

I don´t know the USA names of Fuji chemistry, but the Fuji Hunt Pro6 uses Unilec, which is also compatible with C-41. Rapid fixers are not recommended for E-6, such as Fuji Hunt Negacolor RA fixer. It would probably work if used for a longer time than in C-41RA. but since it costs much more than Unilec, it would be a waste of money.

 

[Mr Bill]

....However, I suspect that the main reason we don't have blix in mainstream color processing is because the equipment people and the existing customers didn't want it........Not because of some quality defects.

Hi, I'm pretty sure that C-41 "blix" (as opposed to separate bleach and fix) would not hold up in a commercial film-processing operation.

Where I worked we ran a couple, or so, of cine processors at, say, 50 ft/min. Film goes from developer directly into the bleach, passing through a squeegee along the way. In order to keep the bleaching step active enough we had to continuously aerate the bleach in-tank. There was a continuous layer of "pea-sized" bubbles on top of the bleach tank. (This is as described in the Kodak Z-131 process manual.) I vaguely recall a couple of times when the air supply was accidentally interrupted, and the effect was obvious on the process control charts. (Steps were taken to prevent future occurrences.)

If that step had been a combined bleach and fix (blix) I'm next to certain that the fixer portion, thiosulfate, would soon be wiped out by the aeration.

On the other hand we did successfully run PAPER processors using paper blix with no problem. The paper has a much lower "bleaching demand" such that, long story short, there is little to no problem

FWIW, regarding FILM blix, there are reasons why it's not suitable for being regenerated, meaning that the lab takes an economic hit (compared to labs that DO regenerate their film bleach.).

 

[jejes]

My main question is:

Could I use Bleach and Fix (from Fujihunt C41) to E6 process? Because i develop one a month E6 and every week C41 and i have the C41 chems. I will use FD and CD from Cinestill that i can buy alone.

Thank You

 

[mshchem]

Hi, I'm pretty sure that C-41 "blix" (as opposed to separate bleach and fix) would not hold up in a commercial film-processing operation.

Where I worked we ran a couple, or so, of cine processors at, say, 50 ft/min. Film goes from developer directly into the bleach, passing through a squeegee along the way. In order to keep the bleaching step active enough we had to continuously aerate the bleach in-tank. There was a continuous layer of "pea-sized" bubbles on top of the bleach tank. (This is as described in the Kodak Z-131 process manual.) I vaguely recall a couple of times when the air supply was accidentally interrupted, and the effect was obvious on the process control charts. (Steps were taken to prevent future occurrences.)

If that step had been a combined bleach and fix (blix) I'm next to certain that the fixer portion, thiosulfate, would soon be wiped out by the aeration.

On the other hand we did successfully run PAPER processors using paper blix with no problem. The paper has a much lower "bleaching demand" such that, long story short, there is little to no problem

FWIW, regarding FILM blix, there are reasons why it's not suitable for being regenerated, meaning that the lab takes an economic hit (compared to labs that DO regenerate their film bleach.).

No doubting what you have said here. My poor attempts at communication. What I meant to say is that a blix can be used to get good results. Clearly the process (blix with automated processing) is not commercially viable.
I always shake my Flexicolor C-41RA bleach, which is expensive but eternal, I've just replenished and I've used this batch for over 5 years. That's impossible with blix or fixer etc.

 

[mshchem]

I don´t know the USA names of Fuji chemistry, but the Fuji Hunt Pro6 uses Unilec, which is also compatible with C-41. Rapid fixers are not recommended for E-6, such as Fuji Hunt Negacolor RA fixer. It would probably work if used for a longer time than in C-41RA. but since it costs much more than Unilec, it would be a waste of money.

Yep, I'm pretty sure that's what I have. I ordered E6 fixer from Unique Photo in a smaller size, what showed up was a 5 gallon cubitainer, UPS to residential address, the delivery person was not happy.

I use it one shot with a Jobo. Use it for black and white film as well. I think I still have at least 3 gallons, stored in 1 gallon glass bottles. This stuff is aging better than Kodak Rapid fix which I've had go bad unopened.

 

[mshchem]

My main question is:

Could I use Bleach and Fix (from Fujihunt C41) to E6 process? Because i develop one a month E6 and every week C41 and i have the C41 chems. I will use FD and CD from Cinestill that i can buy alone.

Thank You

I'm sure the fixer will work. Bleach I don't have any idea. E6 film is so expensive and tricky to shoot (I bracket) I wouldn't want to add another variable. Personally I would get a Adox kit for E6. I used the Tetenal E6 (Adox is supposed to be identical) and it worked great. The chemistry keeps well.

Sorry I can't answer your question.

 

[halfaman]

My main question is:

Could I use Bleach and Fix (from Fujihunt C41) to E6 process? Because i develop one a month E6 and every week C41 and i have the C41 chems. I will use FD and CD from Cinestill that i can buy alone.

Thank You

You can but with some precautions.

In addition to rehalogenate developed silver, standard E6 bleach (and prebleach) includes a formaldehyde precursor to stabilize the dyes. C41 bleach doesn't because it is not needed for color negative dyes.

In order to have one blix for both E6 and C41, Tetenal included formaldehyde in the final rinse (hexamine). So they had one single E6/C41 blix and final rinse for Colortec kits.

Answer: You can use C41 bleach as long as you use Tetenal C41/E6 final rinse, or add formadehyde to a standard C41 final rinse.