Black and white in color media. Portraits

Terrific expression, perfect moment. However, I don't seem to understand your process - please, forgive my ignorance. Could you explain how you made this print?

Kyprianos,

Her expression is priceless, and makes the photo so far as I am concerned. But like 'aparat' I also don't understand how you are getting there.

Regards,
George

I will add my request to aparat's for a full explanation as to your process. I think you have used a B&W neg sandwiched with an unexposed colour neg using Fuji RA4 paper in a Tetenal colour process but I can't be sure.

Can I also ask how the colour cast in each one is just a little different. For example the two of the young girl look very slightly different. One has the same slightly blue/purple look like the one of the older woman but the other is almost pink.

Then finally the first head and shoulders portrait of the older woman in almost sepia. What accounts these differences?

Thanks

pentaxuser

Thank you gentlemen.Technical infos are for those who do their own prints in their own darkroom.Mostly in black and white.I challenge them to try color media for their bw stuff. They all know the so familiar Kodak Polymax filters. Use them along with color (papers and chems) plus a unexposed color negative in filter chamber - not sandwiched (Pentaxuser). Mine was a 6x6 Kodak VPS outdated. The difference in toning you noticed, is due to different grades in Polymax filtration and the only one color print I posted was made after a exhausting effort. Ten prints were lost, to find that the only filtration in Polymax that worked, as I wanted to, was grade 0. Here is the print that the lab gave me years ago (size 9x12cm) http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3013/2974824653_6f5a5db976_o.jpg I was then experimenting with trivial "gelatin" filters (thin translucent plastic covers) with a clear center and wide open f/ stop. I posted these prints using my desktop. Laptop monitor gave a different image appearance. The first,represents at about 90% what I've done and it really exists.Finally,I'm sure that the above method is of no use if you are working on a color head enlarger or you are digitally manipulating your prints.

Kyprianos

Thanks for the explanation but I am still confused. What do you mean by an unexposed colour negative? I have also assumed that Kodak Polymax filters are the equivalent of Ilford filters used with multigrade B&W paper to obtain different grades but I now wonder if my assumption is correct.

Thanks

pentaxuser

Q. "pentaxuser =What do you mean by an unexposed colour negative?"
A. naknak= If you have an outdated color negative give it to the lab. Don't make any trial efforts for taking pictures on it. They will give it back to you as a plain unexposed roll saying, in most instances, that your camera needs repair.

Q. "pentaxuser= I have also assumed that Kodak Polymax filters are the equivalent of Ilford filters used with multigrade B&W ".
A. naknak= Yes they are but they behave different in color media.

And something for the economic aspect of the issue. Fuji Crystal Archive paper in 90mX20cm bulk roll costs 39 euros. If divided 90m by 15cm (I cut the roll to that length) it gives 600 prints 20x15cm. Now, divide 39 euros to 600 prints and you have the final cost for each print, that is 0.07 euros. Add to that the cost of 28 euros for 500ml Tetenal RA 4. Leaflet's recommended total capacity for RA 4 (500ml) is for 5 square meters of paper, but to my experience it is much more.

Kyprianos

Kyprianos. Thanks. From what you are saying I think you have used outdated and unexposed but fully processed colour film which, with luck, some labs may not charge for, as they will assume that your camera was faulty. Alternatively you could achieve the same effect in a home darkroom by processing exposed colour neg film with some unexposed frames. The key to this is simply unexposed but processed colour neg frames.

OK so now you use such unexposed but processed film plus Kodak multigrade filters to produce the colour cast on RA4 paper printed on RA4 paper.

What I was trying to get to the bottom of, was where does the picture come from?

I now presume that a B&W neg of a young girl sunbathing or older woman has been placed in the neg carrier and projected onto RA4 paper but that the colour cast has been obtained by placing an unexposed but processed colour neg along with a Kodak multigrade filter in a B&W enlarger filter drawer.

The colour cast effect can be varied by using different Kodak filters. The unexposed but processed colour neg is essential to the method used but is a "constant" in the process as all the film will be the same. Only the Kodak filter can make a difference. So you can experiment with different filters to get different colour casts?

Presumably the same effect could be achieved with a colour enlarger, provided that the dichroic filters were swung out of the way and some Ilford multigrade filters were placed under the lens along with a piece of unexposed but processed colour neg film?

Have I now got this correct?

Thanks

pentaxuser

"Pentax user=I now presume that a B&W neg of a young girl sunbathing or older woman has been placed in the neg carrier and projected onto RA4 paper but that the colour cast has been obtained by placing an unexposed but processed colour neg along with a Kodak multigrade filter in a B&W enlarger filter drawer."

naknak=That's right!

"Pentaxuser=The colour cast effect can be varied by using different Kodak filters. The unexposed but processed colour neg is essential to the method used but is a "constant" in the process as all the film will be the same. Only the Kodak filter can make a difference. So you can experiment with different filters to get different colour casts?"

naknak=That's right,too!! But sometimes the color cast depends on the density of the bw negative. Don't expect all bw negatives to have the same cast even if the unexposed color negative and the Polymax grade filter remain constant.

"Pentaxuser=Presumably the same effect could be achieved with a colour enlarger, provided that the dichroic filters were swung out of the way and some Ilford multigrade filters were placed under the lens along with a piece of unexposed but processed colour neg film?"

naknak=Correct!!! But I haven't experiment with Ilford's multigrade fillters.
Is everything clear now? If yes, send us your work.I sometimes use a diffuser in the filter chamber (parenthesis: I prefer to work with a bw enlarger though I have a color head) thus I can't give you the exact printing exposure time.It's between 1 and 5 sec. at f/5,6 to 11.

Regards
Kyprianos

Thanks Kyprianos. I now fully understand. I haven't attempted anything like this and unfortunately only have a colour head so no filter drawer and no below the lens filter holder either.

I wonder if the same effect could be obtained by the Yand M dicroic filters to replicate the Ilford range? I last used Ilford filters at a night school course where there were only B&W enlargers but they seemed to be the equivalent of Y dichroic filter at the soft end and M at the hard end in terms of grade?

Just thinking aloud now but if the blue toning effect could be achieved with this process and RA4 paper then it would be longer lasting than the B&W blue tone effect which some say doesn't last very long although others claim that while not archival it can last for quite a long time.

Thanks for all your time and trouble answering my questions

pentaxuser