Danziger Gallery Exhibits "AI-generated color version" of Ansel Adams' "Moonrise, Hernadez, New Mexico" at AIPAD

[djdister]

Since I can't find the criteria or certifying body for a "master printer" I guess I'll just declare myself to be one too...

Please point me to the right resource if I am incorrect.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

What about you sell an Ansel Adams? Just download from the internet and print?

That wouldn't be ethical.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Yup. That wouldn't be free, either. No guarantee you'd get your legal expenses covered. Then, what happens if they do it in a foreign country?

Anyway, that wasn't my point. Let's say I use a photo by some unknowable photographer (instead of a photographer who is not well-known). It wouldn't sell or get any attention. The photo they printed only gets attention because it's already famous.

You're right. If you print a picture of Mona Smith on a porcelain cup instead of Mona Lisa, no one will buy the cup. But da Vinci's copyright has run out. And now we can buy a cup with Mona Lisa on it. And every morning, the buyer gets to drink their coffee looking at their favorite painting. A public benefit.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

...and now people can enjoy their favorite Adams BW photo colorized. Another public benefit.

 

[logan2z]

Since I can't find the criteria or certifying body for a "master printer" I guess I'll just declare myself to be one too...

Please point me to the right resource if I am incorrect.

There's an interesting thread on the subject here, although it's specific to letterpress:

What Makes a Master Printer | Briar Press | A letterpress community

Briar Press: A letterpress community. Museum of Printing Presses, Letterpress Classifieds, Printer's Yellow Pages, and vintage postscript artwork for download.

www.briarpress.org

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Since I can't find the criteria or certifying body for a "master printer" I guess I'll just declare myself to be one too...

Please point me to the right resource if I am incorrect.

Fstoppers called Esteban Mauchi a master printer. I have no knowledge of him at all.

Why Ansel Adams' Legacy Matters in the AI Era | Fstoppers

A major NYC gallery colorized Adams' iconic Moonrise photograph with AI and sold it for $10,000 without permission. The Trust's response raises critical questions about artist rights, consent, and ethics in generative art.

fstoppers.com

 

[Vaughn]

I wonder if one can ask to have it printed on metal.

 

[retina_restoration]

...and now people can enjoy their favorite Adams BW photo colorized. Another public benefit.

Either way, it is a cheap, kitschy derivative, parasitizing an iconic work.

I guess AEK gets the last word.

As always.

 

[djdister]

Fstoppers called Esteban Mauchi a master printer. I have no knowledge of him at all.

Why Ansel Adams' Legacy Matters in the AI Era | Fstoppers

A major NYC gallery colorized Adams' iconic Moonrise photograph with AI and sold it for $10,000 without permission. The Trust's response raises critical questions about artist rights, consent, and ethics in generative art.

fstoppers.com

That is a direct quote from the Gallery listing, not a certifying body for "Master Printers."

 

[MattKing]

I didn't do it to mock. That would be insulting. I did do it to make a few points, to add to the conversation.

So you have registered the copyright, in order to access the enhanced remedies????
(For the non-USA members, this seems to be a peculiarity of the copyright legislation in the USA).

 

[BrianShaw]

I wonder if one can ask to have it printed on metal.

Velvet. Millions of kitschy paintings on velvet sold once upon a time. It might be time for that fad to reappear!

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Either way, it is a cheap, kitschy derivative, parasitizing an iconic work.


As always.

What if the change was brilliant, positive, avant-garde? Would that be OK? Who decides?

Why did the US Congress and most other countries decide to end copyright protection after a certain period of time? I seem to be among the few people here willing to defend the law and its perceived public good. You hold the minority viewpoint. The people, through their representatives, don't want perpetual copyrights.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

So you have registered the copyright, in order to access the enhanced remedies????
(For the non-USA members, this seems to be a peculiarity of the copyright legislation in the USA).

No, I haven't registered any of my photos. I doubt my heirs are going to care about them. Frankly, any modifications would probably improve them.

 

[MattKing]

Why do you equate a desire to maintain legal protection with a desire to discourage something that for many is, to quote @retina_restoration : "a cheap, kitschy derivative, parasitizing an iconic work"?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Why do you equate a desire to maintain legal protection with a desire to discourage something that for many is, to quote @retina_restoration : "a cheap, kitschy derivative, parasitizing an iconic work"?

Who decides? What if the next variation of Moonrise is really avant-garde. Then it couldn't be published according to your standards. Freedom requires that we take the bad with the good. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Let the market determine these things. But don't force some people's beliefs on others. Especially when the law isn't on your side.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

...Why did the US Congress and most other countries decide to end copyright protection after a certain period of time?...

Just a guess, but most 10 year olds give little thought to purchasing a work of art, murdering the artist to greatly enhance the value of the work, then sit idly by for 70 years to cash in when they turn 80 years of age.

Shortening the time frame increases the chance someone will start noodling around with variations on that idea.

 

[MattKing]

Who decides? What if the next variation of Moonrise is really avant-garde. Then it couldn't be published according to your standards. Freedom requires that we take the bad with the good. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Let the market determine these things. But don't force some people's beliefs on others. Especially when the law isn't on your side.

Depends on the representations attached to the presentation.
And a $10,000.00 price tag from a gallery, using another artist's name to push up the value, along with the reputation attached to a piece of work from that artist, is quite a representation........

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Good thing Seth Wheeler lost the rights to US Patent 465,588 a long time ago. His invention is quite useful when trying to figure out what to do with both the Danzinger Moonrise and where this associated thread had gone.

 

[Arthurwg]

Since I can't find the criteria or certifying body for a "master printer" I guess I'll just declare myself to be one too...

Please point me to the right resource if I am incorrect.

I had a friend who worked on a sport fishing boat. He wore a tee shirt that read "Master Baiter."

 

[Don_ih]

A master printer is just the guy who is in charge of the junior printers.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I would say that the people have decided, since 95% of the publicity this stunt has generated is extremely negative. You can't ignore that fact.

That may be true against Danziger, for now. But the cat is out of the bag now that people have learned some of his work is in the public domain. Soon you will see colorized versions of Moonrise on porcelain mugs and velvet posters.

 

[Stephen Benskin]

The West Wing - Performance Art and NEA Funding​

"Art is not a popularity contest." - Marcel Duchamp

 

[Pieter12]

Whenever you read “master printer” anywhere, you know what kind of nonsense you’re dealing with.

How else would you distinguish them from a schlock printer?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Depends on the representations attached to the presentation.
And a $10,000.00 price tag from a gallery, using another artist's name to push up the value, along with the reputation attached to a piece of work from that artist, is quite a representation........

That's exactly why copyrights are ended. It is to prevent the monopolization of work by the originator forever. In return for protecting him during the copyright period, and giving him exclusive control and profit, he has to give up that protection after a certain length of time.

 

[MattKing]

That's exactly why copyrights are ended. It is to prevent the monopolization of work by the originator forever. In return for protecting him during the copyright period, and giving him exclusive control and profit, he has to give up that protection after a certain length of time.

Even if there is no copyright protection, it doesn't mean that one can "pass off" other artist's work as one's own - that is still fraudulent and actionable in law.