Considering earning an MFA in Photography

[pamphoto]

Hello,
(I am not sure if this is the best section for this post, as nothing seemed correct.)

I am considering earning my MFA in photography. I am thinking this will open more doors for me. For example, I'll be able to teach. There are two universities nearby that I will be able to drive to to work on it. Both offer a three year program. I am hoping to be able to have a professional paying career at some point, and this is what I am thinking would offer the best opportunities.

What are some thoughts from those of you who do have an MFA? Why did you pursue it? What do you wish you had known prior to attending? What opportunities did/does having an MFA open for you?

Thank you for your insight!

 

[koraks]

Which doors do you hope this will help open for you? Sorry, I can't comment, but it might help others with the required experience to make their answers more concrete/applicable to your case. E.g. I can imagine there's a difference between creative and commercial types of doors.

 

[spookyphoto]

I studied with Henry Holmes Smith 50 years ago at Indiana University in Bloomington. He was widely considered the father of fine art photographic education in this country. Even then he felt that an MFA in fine art photography was essentially committing academic suicide.

 

[Vaughn]

I only thought of a MFA...and decided that was not a path for me (I had thought about it in my mid 30s). I did not want to teach on the college level -- I enjoyed the one-on-one teaching I did as the Art Dept. darkroom tech, and I did not have to be on committees and all that stuff. I would have loved the pay.

I did get a BS and watching my sons go thru uni (Berkeley and Cornell), I would say the most important thing about going to college is the connections one makes...being genuinely interested in learning and interacting with the instructors. Go the extra mile in helping other students and being involved. If one is not willing/able to do that, then one will not be seen as good instructor/professor material.

On an interesting side note, one thing that has changed since my early days in college (1972) that I saw in later working at the same university (retired 2015) is the balance of male/female professors and university leaders. That has definitely changed -- and what this has resulted in are female professors who have realized that they do not have to put up with the toxic masculinity bullshit (and it accompanying emotional immaturity) from students. It no longer needs to be excused or tolerated.

 

[BrianShaw]

I studied with Henry Holmes Smith 50 years ago at Indiana University in Bloomington. He was widely considered the father of fine art photographic education in this country. Even then he felt that an MFA in fine art photography was essentially committing academic suicide.

I did not know, nor have I ever met, Henry Holmes Smith, but this statement just doesn't ring likely accurate. Clearly he valued photographic education or he would not have invested his lifetime to that pursuit. He was well-known to be curmudgeonly and excel at both the philosophical and academic aspects of visual art, especially as it applied to the role of art and art education to society. According to my knowledge, he did not nullify the value of art education/degrees yet pondered the relative societal value of art education/degrees (and perhaps the pursuit as well) in comparison to other academic areas, like medicine and engineering. That is very different from what you recall and is generally supported by other reflections on his life and art philosophies.

MFA is a great educational degree if/when it serves a purpose to the person achieving it... same as like any other degree. A degree simply for the purpose of achieving a degree is okay as well, just not as useful in the grand scheme of life.

 

[spookyphoto]

I did not know, nor have I ever met, Henry Holmes Smith, but this statement just doesn't ring likely accurate. Clearly he valued photographic education or he would not have invested his lifetime to that pursuit. He was well-known to be curmudgeonly and excel at both the philosophical and academic aspects of visual art, especially as it applied to the role of art and art education to society. According to my knowledge, he did not nullify the value of art education/degrees yet pondered the relative societal value of art education/degrees (and perhaps the pursuit as well) in comparison to other academic areas, like medicine and engineering. That is very different from what you recall and is generally supported by other reflections on his life and art philosophies.

MFA is a great educational degree if/when it serves a purpose to the person achieving it... same as like any other degree. A degree simply for the purpose of achieving a degree is okay as well, just not as useful in the grand scheme of life.

I was there at the end of Henry's career and he was very bitter. He just got tired of seeing his students end up in low paying jobs. He always wanted students to study business. By that time Reg Herron who was a dear friend of mine was taking over Henry's duties.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Like any other academic pursuit, if the route appeals to you, and you can realistically afford it, that's your call. Don't expect it to give you any edge in commercial photography. Blood, sweat, and tears are more effective at that. And academic "art" careers have always been a dicey proposition, mired in all the usual academic frivolities. Teaching positions are limited; and the AI mass-extinction asteroid is already arriving, affecting even graphic arts careers. If teaching is really what you want to do, you should probably have some alternate means of financial support if it doesn't work out. Try making friendship or apprentice-like personal connections with staff at your chosen University before you even begin. Have a serious portfolio.

I had an aunt who not only held a phD in Art History and taught it at a major university, but also two other phD's, and was an internationally recognized artist in her own right. She told me not to waste my time pursuing an art education - it would ruin me (creatively).

A university education has a lot to offer in its own right; but a remarkable number of graduates necessarily go on to pursue careers quite different from their formal majors, and an awful lot live in deep debt too, paying off their education. There are few notable photographers in my neighborhood who did take the academic route, but then either went through their own lengthy "starving artist" period trying to gain recognition, or else married someone with a lot of money to begin with.

 

[Pieter12]

Academia can be a bumpy path, especially in the arts. Tenure positions are the most sought-after, otherwise you could be looking for a new (low-paying) job every few years. Plus, there can be bureaucratic headaches and other issues not related to teaching or photography that come along with the field. Having said that, if you like teaching, a graduate degree is a definite plus when applying for positions.

 

[BrianShaw]

I was there at the end of Henry's career and he was very bitter. He just got tired of seeing his students end up in low paying jobs. He always wanted students to study business. By that time Reg Herron who was a dear friend of mine was taking over Henry's duties.

I can't and won't dispute your recollection. It is important, though, for the sake of anyone pursing a future in the arts or art education to point to his own writings, especially the chapter entitled "The Academic Camea Club (or possibly the world's youngest profession", 1977" :

Henry Holmes Smith : collected writings 1935-1985 : Smith, Henry Holmes : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

xii, 169 p. : 23 cm

archive.org

Since this reference requires a free subscrition to access, and it's a lot of reading, but very worthwhile to at least skim. Here is one potentially poignant writing of his on the topic at hand. He has a rich history in both the arts, art education, related professional societies, and phiosophical thought on all of hte aforementioned relative to society as a whole. There is no doubt that the vast majority of folks in that field don't make a lot of money, but I don't think that's entirely his concern. I might be wrong, or course, especially if his attitude did a complete flip in the last decade of his life.

 

[koraks]

I had an aunt who not only held a phD in Art History and taught it at a major university, but also two other phD's

That's remarkable! Which subjects did she write three theses on and can you link me to some of her publications?

She told me not to waste my time pursuing an art education - it would ruin me (creatively).

I'm sorry you received such advice; it doesn't strike me as particularly truthful, but perhaps there was a background to what she said that isn't included in the anecdote. Also, I assume that your decision-making ultimately involved a number of considerations and you were wise enough to set doubtful advice aside.

Academia can be a bumpy path, especially in the arts. Tenure positions are the most sought-after

I think perhaps we should distinguish between pursuing an academic education, and pursuing a career in academia. The latter obviously requires the former, but as we all know, the vast majority of people with an academic education end up outside of academia. It's so far not clear to me whether @pamphoto is pursuing an academic career per se, and taking a wild guess based on what I can see so far, I'd assume that's not what she's thinking of.

 

[Pieter12]

That's remarkable! Which subjects did she write three theses on and can you link me to some of her publications?


I'm sorry you received such advice; it doesn't strike me as particularly truthful, but perhaps there was a background to what she said that isn't included in the anecdote. Also, I assume that your decision-making ultimately involved a number of considerations and you were wise enough to set doubtful advice aside.


I think perhaps we should distinguish between pursuing an academic education, and pursuing a career in academia. The latter obviously requires the former, but as we all know, the vast majority of people with an academic education end up outside of academia. It's so far not clear to me whether @pamphoto is pursuing an academic career per se, and taking a wild guess based on what I can see so far, I'd assume that's not what she's thinking of.

She does say in her post, "For example, I'll be able to teach."

 

[MattKing]

If you get an MFA and then take the necessary steps and complete the necessary qualifications become a high school teacher in our public school system, your master's degree will probably mean a bump-up in your pay.
But the biggest reason for obtaining a post graduate degree is the knowledge and experience you enrich yourself with in the process.
My career was in law, and my quasi-post graduate degree in law was a pre-requisite, but the Physics undergraduate (BSc.) degree I earned before that served me well in my apparently unrelated professional vocation thereafter.

 

[koraks]

She does say in her post, "For example, I'll be able to teach."

Yes, I understand; around here, most of the teaching in the area of photography does not occur at universities. However, the American context is different.

 

[btaylor]

If you would like to teach in the US, high school or college, the MFA will be valuable if not essential to be considered for a position. A position teaching art is very competitive unless you have already made a big impression in your field.
Its hard to say whether it would be a good investment without knowing more about your specific goals.

 

[BrianShaw]

It might be soon enough that the US will have an equivelent to the Royal Academy of Fine Arts...

 

[Pieter12]

It might be soon enough that the US will have an equivelent to the Royal Academy of Fine Arts...

Not sure what is meant by that. There are plenty of excellent art schools in the US.

 

[BrianShaw]

Not sure what is meant by that. There are plenty of excellent art schools in the US.

Yes there are! The subtle distinction attemted to be made is the difference between "government-funded" universities and private educational institutions versus what I may have erroneously thought were European government-sponsored art schools. It seems that at least some of non-US art academies are actually charities that are/were under a Royal patronage. Clumsily stated...

 

[koraks]

European government-sponsored art schools

Note that the institutional landscape for art education throughout Europe is extremely diverse. I'm sure that pretty much any configuration you could think of, exists somewhere out there. To the best of my knowledge none of it is 'European' as such; it's all dependent on national and regional structures.

 

[BrianShaw]

Note that the institutional landscape for art education throughout Europe is extremely diverse. I'm sure that pretty much any configuration you could think of, exists somewhere out there. To the best of my knowledge none of it is 'European' as such; it's all dependent on national and regional structures.

Noted and correction accepted. I mistakenly thought that the various Royal Academies were government or Crown sponsored. It turns out that the US landscape for art education may be equally diverse...

 

[Patrick Robert James]

There are really only two reasons to get an MFA that will help you financially. If you want to teach and if you want to go the gallery route. Your success in either will highly depend on the school you go to. At this point there really are only a few schools that will help and they aren't in Texas. You also need a lot of talent as well. Photography is a talent just like many other things. You have to ask yourself if you have the talent to do it, otherwise an MFA is just a waste of money. On the other hand, if you are really talented, then you won't need an MFA, it will just help in opening doors. You don't even need an MFA to teach in that case. I've known several people that were recruited into it. I did a short stint at a large university myself.

If you want to be a photographer then you are better off not going to school for it and just learning about it in the real world. Get a job as an assistant to someone who is really good doing the kind of photography you want to do. That will open lots of doors itself.

Good luck.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

One thing to understand about applying to an MFA program - if you say in your application that you are doing it so you can get a teaching credential, 99% of schools (or some other very high percentage) will reject you. There are hundreds of MFA degree holders for every open teaching slot. The purpose of doing an MFA is to essentially have a 2-3 year extended artist-in-residence program combined with intense ongoing feedback. You should be doing it to concentrate and hone your artistic practice and deepen your understanding of what makes your work tick. That was the guidance I received from my art school professors at MICA when I considered going back to get an MFA.

I teach now, at a local independent art center. I've not needed the MFA to do so, and being apart from a formal academic institution gives me the freedom to teach what I want on my own schedule. Am I able to make a living from it? NO. But it provides a decent supplement (camera toys and art supplies money).

 

[koraks]

I mistakenly thought that the various Royal Academies were government or Crown sponsored.

The European monarchies I'm familiar with do not finance educational institutes, at least not to any significant degree. They're either government-financed or (possibly, not sure) privately financed - or a mix thereof. It'll depend on the specific institute. The 'Royal' bit is partly a historical leftover, partly a kind of 'seal of approval', although that's arguably of marginal relevance in today's society. And yes, I think the American landscape may be quite as diverse, for sure! It's easy to miss the intricacies if we look at something from a large distance; that certainly goes both ways. Anyway...sorry to digress. Mostly typing this because I find it fun to occasionally pick something up about how things work 'over yonder', so I imagine this might go for you as well.

Also, @TheFlyingCamera thanks for that insight; that sounds like the exact kind of input OP is looking for! I gladly cede the floor to you.

 

[Vaughn]

…The purpose of doing an MFA is to essentially have a 2-3 year extended artist-in-residence program combined with intense ongoing feedback…

With learning to read, write, and speak academic English (or language used at the uni). And these days I would not be surprised if one’s emotional intelligence will be tested/challenged as well.

 

[cliveh]

This may be a bit off thread for this post, but could I suggest that in terms of Academia, both America and the United Kingdom would benefit from greater visiting lecturer exchanges. When I was in education, we had one professor of photography from the USA visit and give a lecture. However, the UK could give a European perspective on photography in terms of trends and styles and vice versa from the USA.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

In order to teach in the NYC school system, you need to get a Master's. So that could dovetail nicely with your endeavors in getting an MFA. You can always teach regular subjects in the public school if the art teaching doesn't work out. NYC gives you five years to get the master's while you can teach in the system. Not sure which other school systems in the US provide this arrangement.