Xtol as a Colour Developer?

[Athiril]

After some discussion on flickr, one guy said Xtol was forming colour on at least on layer, asked him to do a test to confirm.

Here is his result - http://www.flickr.com/photos/richard314159/4381406063/

This would explain why I could not use both Xtol or Rodinal as a first developer for E6 earlier... but doesn't explain why both work brilliantly as first developers for E6 when run hot (38-40c).

Kinda odd

 

[Kirk Keyes]

In reversal processes like E-6, the first developer simply develops the film in preparation for the reveral developer processing where the color in the film is generated.

See this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-6_process

Note the use of CD-3 in the color developer - that's where the magic happens!

 

[Athiril]

That's not an on topic post. I do not know why you would think I need a basic breakdown of the process given my post, if you read what I said it indicates I have experience running E6.

This topic is about Xtol forming colour dyes, which I didn't think it was able to. But from my experiments running Xtol cold (20c) on colour film, getting good developer silver negs at inspection, then opaque positives after reversal, this would be an explanation, as the exact same thing happens with Rodinal cold in colour reversal (Rodinal is a known colour developer), but both work as a first dev for reversal when hot.

Plenty of other chemicals also are capable of forming colour, Aminophenol (Rodinal) is a colour developer, it forms colour dyes across all layers, as does Phenidone and Metol.

 

[nickandre]

Interesting to know. I wonder if you could develop first in hot rodinal, and then in cold rodinal to make a positive...

 

[Athiril]

Interesting to know. I wonder if you could develop first in hot rodinal, and then in cold rodinal to make a positive...

A while back I was trying to use rodinal to make colour negs, had some success, but they were extremely thin was bleached and fix, best results are generally partial bleach bypass, with little colour close to being monochromatic (most image coming from silver neg).

 

[AgX]

To be precise, you are talking about `primary colour developers´.

It may be the use of just `color developer´ that lead Kirk astray.

 

[Kirk Keyes]

To be precise, you are talking about `primary colour developers´.

It may be the use of just `color developer´ that lead Kirk astray.

I guess I don't know what a "primary color developer" is...

So you're not substituting Xtol for the first developer in E-6 or using E-6 reversal film?

Could you give a step by step description of what your developing steps are?

 

[AgX]

There are two ways a developer can produce a dye:

-) as primary colour developer: forming colour by oxidation or by reaction of two oxidised developer molecules

-) as coupling colour developer: forming colour by oxodation and subsequent coupling with a colour coupler.

 

[Kirk Keyes]

OK - thanks for the definitions.

 

[Punker]

I'm in this boat now. My first E6 developer has surely failed by now but the other 2 chemicals I'm sure are fine. What dilutions and times should I use for the first developer? I have both Xtol and Rodinal on hand. The Flickr post mentions Xtol 1:1 for 20 mins but no time.

 

[Punker]

Sorry. No temp*

 

[dE fENDER]

I'm in this boat now. My first E6 developer has surely failed by now but the other 2 chemicals I'm sure are fine. What dilutions and times should I use for the first developer? I have both Xtol and Rodinal on hand. The Flickr post mentions Xtol 1:1 for 20 mins but no time.

This thread is about some experiments with color developing without using a normal color developer and such processing is not a part of E-6 process. You shouldn't use any of these as first E-6 developer, because they will produce dyes during developing. Xtol dyes you can see in the first message, rodinal is based on 4-aminophenol which is color developer by itself.

E-6 first developer should produce no dye, it is the requirement for the process. Please also note that you cannot use "any b/w developer" if you want to get some quality result without lomograpy colors. E-6 black and white developers are key components of the process and any deviations will spoil your result image.

You may try to use only recipes, which had been tested with E-6 films, for example: http://www.opie.net/orphy/photo/dr/wkft-e6.html .

 

[Punker]

Thank you very much for that. It looks like tallying up the chemicals needed, I would spend ~$120 for all the components. Then I can mix several batches of first developer as needed. Thanks a lot!