X-ray film characteristics

[michaelbsc]

I have an offer for some recently expired half-blue (whatever that is) and some green x-ray film.

I poked around here a little, but got no matches on x-ray. I realize this isn't going to rival any commercial panchromatic emulsion, but is this stuff worth taking?

It's several sizes of sheets that obviously could be cut down to fit film holders. My best guess from the blue and green description is that I could even work it under red safelights.

It doesn't seem to have an ISO/ASA rating, so is this stuff slow, fast, hight contrast, low contrast?

It seems it may be a useful experiment for getting process flow worked out, but if it's useless film I would rather not waste my time. But if it's 'OK' film, just not great, I'll probably take it.

Any hints? Is this a great untapped source, or is there a reason no one ever talks about it.

MB

 

[DannL]

Here's are the contents of a PM I sent today to another interested party . . .

"I really haven't had much time to use this film other than in testing. But I am very pleased with the results that I had achieved up to this point. Especially the Kodak MXB (blue). I just recently upgraded my 8x10 camera with a Radar 8x10 f/4.5 lens and started to do some controlled tests for myself. The links below are to contact prints on Ilford MGIV Glossy. I shot the film it as if it were ASA/ISO 200. Then I removed the emulsion from the back side of the film with Clorox bleach before making the final contact prints shown. I was surprised at the contrast, and that even the clouds showed."

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2766/4036221590_a3cdcdd19a_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3518/4035472033_18b6641d47_o.jpg

Dead Link Removed

+

 

[Denis R]

tips

read this Dead Link Removed


go here http://science.hq.nasa.gov/kids/imagers/ems/xrays.html

and here http://www.kodak.com/global/en/corp/historyOfKodak/impacting.jhtml

In 2007, Kodak sold its Health Group to more closely focus
on its consumer and commercial imaging businesses. The
former Health Group now operates under the name
Carestream Health, Inc., as a business of Onex Corporation

this is interesting http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/publications/tib5201.jhtml

this is long... Dead Link Removed

this is fun: http://www.noah.org/science/x-ray/polaroid/index.html

 

[AgX]

X-ray films differ as well in spectral sensitization as well as in speed and contrast.
Most of them are coated with emulsion on both sides to gain non-light speed.

 

[juan]

Try it.
juan

 

[ic-racer]

Many have two-sided emulsions. So, Large format drum processing can be problematic.

 

[michaelbsc]

I shot the film it as if it were ASA/ISO 200. Then I removed the emulsion from the back side of the film with Clorox bleach before making the final contact prints shown.

If you remove the back side emulsion, then I assume it has no anto-halation layer? Would this be correct? I don't see how it could have both.

MB

 

[DannL]

If you remove the back side emulsion, then I assume it has no anto-halation layer? Would this be correct? I don't see how it could have both.

MB

Yes, that is correct. The base of the film I am using is transparent blue, with what appears to be equal amounts of emulsion on front and back. Or is that back and front? I can't tell because there are no notches on the film.

 

[AgX]

Michael,

Double-coated, spectrally sensitized X-ray films are sandwiched between two flourescent sheets, thus light is coming from both sides.
The antihalation layer is to be coated, as done in most pictorial films, between emulsion and base. But in this case mirror-wise.


Furthermore I would like to hint at the fact that there are also double-coated X-ray films with different sensitometric characteristics on the different sides.
The field of X-ray films is very complex.

 

[michaelbsc]

Michael,

Double-coated, spectrally sensitized X-ray films are sandwiched between two flourescent sheets, thus light is coming from both sides.
The antihalation layer is to be coated, as done in most pictorial films, between emulsion and base. But in this case mirror-wise.


Furthermore I would like to hint at the fact that there are also double-coated X-ray films with different sensitometric characteristics on the different sides.
The field of X-ray films is very complex.

OK, but without caring for why a film does or does not have particular characteristics for X-ray use, so long as we know these characteristics we can exploit them for our own use.

The film is inexpensive, and readily available. I seriously doubt it should be considered a replacement for commercial LF sheet film if you're getting paid for a professional photo shoot, but for me to toy with in my spare time it's probably fine.

So, if the two sides are coated differently, how would you identify one side vs the other? Can I assume that the data sheets will adequately detail the difference between the sides?

And can I handle it under red safe-light?

MB

 

[DannL]

Here's an image of the Kodak MXB General Purpose Film prior to development.

 

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Michael, I have been using/experimenting some of the green sensitive x-ray film. You need to develop this stuff in a flat bottomed tray or on hangers in tanks as it has emulsion on both sides. I develop my 8x10 on hangers in tanks in Pyrocat -HD 1:1: 150 and it builds density fast. The film is high contrast and I use a red safelight to develop by inspection. It is very fragile and scratches easily so you must handle with care. I expose the film at ISO 100 and have found that it needs no reciprocity correction for long exposures which is a plus. Why this is so I do not know and really do not care. All I know is it is great for long exposure stuff and it is cheap.I'll attach a couple of images done with this film. I like the high contrast nature of this film for my alternative printing, mainly carbon transfer. The images posted are the only ones I could find at the moment and are all shot without using any filters. The first one is a carbon print, the second one of my son is on Azo and the last one is a Pt/Pd print. I'll try to find some other images if you need more info.

Jim

 

[DeBone 75]

X-ray film is not coated differently on each side. It's coated on each side to make a denser image. It is easyer for the techs to load and it is cheaper to make this way. When I load my holders I cut an angle on the corner of the film that would normally have the notches. That way I know which side was faceing the lens. The stuff I currently have, about 500 sheets for $75.00, is ultra blue. Around Iso 1000. I tryed several film tests from 1000 down to 200 and the 1000 seams about right. Acctually it may even be a bit more but I can work with 1000. I realy like using the stuff. As time starts to allow I am going to start doing some tests with different filters. Red filters do have an effect on it, because the wrong red safe light filter does have an effect. I'm going to try different contast printing filters to see what will happen

 

[michaelbsc]

OK, I see a couple of things in everyone's comments.

First, I don't have a truly flat bottom tray, just ridges. I do have an old Uniroller base and drum, but I've never tried using that method. For 4x5 I have a Phototherm 4x5 adapter, and it works great. When I see folks talk about using the Uniroller drum they're always talking about photo film with a regular emulsion, not double coated like this. So that may or may not be a reasonable approach depending on how well the fixer can get to the back of the film in the drum.

Let me see if I have this right about speed and color sensitivity.

The blue is 'mostly' blue sensitive, and fairly fast. The half blue is about one stop slower? And the spectral sensitivity is reminiscent of the 19th century emulsions?

The GREEN labeled film is about the same spectral sensitivity as the original Orthochromatic emulsions. And Half Green would be one stop slower, but I don't know what that will be.

They are not panchromatic, but they aren't particularly safe under safelights either. Certainly not like RC paper would be expected to be. So this implies that there is some degree of red sensitivity, but it's not an objective in manufacturing the film.

Is this a fair summary of what folks have said so far?

MB

 

[DeBone 75]

The proper safe light for x-ray film is GBX 2 I belive. That being said I don't have a GBX 2 filter but still a very dark red one and I have no problems. I have used lighter red darkroom lights that did fog the film.

 

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Michael, I can comment on the trays with ridges. You will see the raised line in the image once it is developed due to the emulsion on both sides. If you have a tray that has the grooves that are in the bottom of the tray you will be okay. If you try the drums and roller things you will scratch the hell out of the film. The best way IMHO is in tanks on hangers. You can then inspect the film by turning on the red safelight after about 75-80 % of the development time has passed. Hope this helps.

Jim

 

[michaelbsc]

Michael, I can comment on the trays with ridges. You will see the raised line in the image once it is developed due to the emulsion on both sides. If you have a tray that has the grooves that are in the bottom of the tray you will be okay. If you try the drums and roller things you will scratch the hell out of the film. The best way IMHO is in tanks on hangers. You can then inspect the film by turning on the red safelight after about 75-80 % of the development time has passed. Hope this helps.

Jim

Thanks for the tips.

I don't have any large tanks and hangers, just 4x5. And honestly I've never used them. They were part of a box of treasures from an auction. (It's been so long that I don't even remember what they came with. Something else I was interested in, obviously.)