Weird black strip on negs side

[sagai]

Hi World,
i need a wee help please.

Any idea what could cause that black on the side of the negative?

I have dropped the idea of having a black hole in my camera.

Thanks!

 

[winger]

To me, it looks like uneven developing and not having quite enough developer in the tank. There could be other possibilities, though.

What size film?
What kind of camera?
How was it developed?

 

[Jim Jones]

A dragging horizontally running focal plane shutter can cause this problem, especially at higher shutter speeds.

 

[Jim Noel]

Insufficient quantity of chemistry?

 

[MartinP]

On the negative, the marks to the right of your picture would be thinner than the rest of the image. Your description doesn't seem to match that. Please can you photograph the strip of negatives including the perforated edges, then better suggestions may be made about possible reasons for irregular development, or a misfiring shutter, or some other cause.

 

[railwayman3]

Is this a 120 film....there seem to be some edge lettering on the right-hand side which looks like that. In which case the streaks run longways along the film ? Maybe uneven development, or, if a roll film, could the film have been strained in some way, perhaps through uneven loading on the camera spool.

 

[drpsilver]

06 Dec 2015

Does the dark streak (thin area on the negative) run the entire length of the roll? It looks to me that you may have a light leak in the film back. I say this because the vertical light streaks in the print do not seem to be natural (nonuniform sky, different tones within the same tree, ...).

Regards,
Darwin

 

[gzhuang]

I think the neg needs more fixing time.

 

[480sparky]

06 Dec 2015

Does the dark streak (thin area on the negative) run the entire length of the roll? It looks to me that you may have a light leak in the film back. I say this because the vertical light streaks in the print do not seem to be natural (nonuniform sky, different tones within the same tree, ...).

Regards,
Darwin

A light leak would make the image lighter, not darker. The image posted is a positive image, not a negative one.

 

[sagai]

Hello there,
Many thanks for all of these.

I have forgot to add that it is a 120 film taken with a C330f TLR, standard 80/2.8 sekor lens and yes, it is a positive image. Further yes, the black strip on the side runs through all images and images spaces.

So, I would exclude if it would be:
- focal plane shutter problem,
- light leaks .


More on this, I have choosen deliberatly my Paterson tank for 4 reels, only because it was saying on its bottom that 500 ccm is okay for a 120/220 roll. I have prepared 550 ccm to make sure that it will be enough volume.
I suspect either 500 ccm is not enough contrary with the advice or it might happened that my tank was not on a fully flat surface and the developer was not fully covered all of the negs through development.

Also, I need to revisit my practise for agitation that was working for 35mm, however for 120 it might be more precise.

Fixing time also something I need to think of. I only do regular checking of the fixer with an unexposed negative to see if it is still working rather than keeping note of the number of processed negs.

Thank you again!

 

[MattKing]

It is also possible that the reel migrated up the centre column. You can either use clips or rubber bands or additional empty reels on top of a full reel to prevent this.

 

[RobC]

I suspect there is something wrong with the roll of film. was it and old roll of film which has possibly not been kept properly, maybe in hot temps.
Does this happen on all rolls of film or just this one?

It could be more than one problem, film slipping up column so it doesn't get developed at edge and incomplete fixing but I'm not sure about that.

 

[sagai]

"I suspect there is something wrong with the roll of film"

It is also could be among the reasons indeed, thank you.

 

[RobC]

I would just put another roll of film through the camera as a test and see if the same happens. If problem disappears then just put it down to one of those unexplained things that happen from time to time.

 

[480sparky]

I would just put another roll of film through the camera as a test and see if the same happens. If problem disappears then just put it down to one of those unexplained things that happen from time to time.

If there's a cause, then said cause should be determined so it can be mitigated or eliminated. Labelling it a just 'one of those things that happens from time to time' is unacceptable. Doing so means it will happen again and again and again. This costs money, wastes time and will result in the lose of images.

 

[RobC]

If there's a cause, then said cause should be determined so it can be mitigated or eliminated. Labelling it a just 'one of those things that happens from time to time' is unacceptable. Doing so means it will happen again and again and again. This costs money, wastes time and will result in the lose of images.

Oh yeah, so explain how it will happen again and again if it just happens to be a bad roll of film. If the next one turns out fine you haven't got clue wether it will happen again and again. But if the same happens then you can investigate it further. If it doesn't you can forget it. And just so your clear on this, you don't want to ruin your next roll of film too so you you should do a test roll to prove its fixed so what I suggested IS the best course of action to find out if it was a one off or something wrong with camera and/or processing.

 

[480sparky]

Oh yeah, so explain how it will happen again and again if it just happens to be a bad roll of film.

Film isn't manufactured one roll every day, using a single strip of cellulose cut just for the purpose and just enough emulsion to cover it. They make thousands of them at a time, called batches. And if the next roll in the batch is any indication, it will likely exhibit the same problem. That's why there's numbers and letters on the box..... so you can identify the batch the roll comes from. If the numbers are the same from one box to the next, and the film has the same problem, then one should investigate that batch of film. This is troubleshooting 101.

If the next one turns out fine you haven't got clue wether it will happen again and again. But if the same happens then you can investigate it further.

Again, keeping track of film batches helps narrow down the possibility, or eliminate it altogether.

If it doesn't you can forget it.

No, I'd much rather investigate other possibilites. I would never go out in the field with a suspect batch of film until I've eliminated the possibility with 100% assurance it's not the film. If it's a developing issue, then I'd investigate those possibilities as well. Not enough developer? Poor agitation? Excessive agitation? Developer not mixed correctly? Contamination issues? Perhaps there's a focal-plane shutter problem. Or it's the SLR mirror that's not fully raising.

And just so your clear on this, you don't want to ruin your next roll of film too so you you should do a test roll to prove its fixed so what I suggested IS the best course of action to find out if it was a one off or something wrong with camera and/or processing.

Again, we're back to TS101.

 

[sagai]

I would just put another roll of film through the camera as a test and see if the same happens. If problem disappears then just put it down to one of those unexplained things that happen from time to time.

I am very much okay with this concept!
There was a time when I would have jump into endless analysis of all of these, those days are gone luckily.

Couple of good thoughts came out as part of all these great advises and suspicions that I can use in general to enhance my process, I do appreciate all.

 

[Kirks518]

I'm not a film developing savant like most of these guys, but to me it looks like the film wasn't in the developer the whole time; either not enough developer in the tank to begin with, or (as stated above), the reel moved up on the rod. The area of concern is wavy, and stepped, which makes me think that with each agitation, it moved just a hair up the roll.

I would also be concerned about the vertical areas throughout the image of lightness.

If this was a roll of 220, I would look at the seals on the camera near the hinge, but with 120, the paper backing does a pretty good job of protecting the film. I had a C220 that was fine with 120, but with 220 it was evident that the seals were bad.

I also use a Paterson, and when I do 120, I overfill the tank. I bring the developer (D-76) level up to the funnel area. Not so much that it restricts flow during agitation, but enough that I know without a doubt there is enough developer (and fixer) so that it is covered even if the roll moves all the way up. You may want to try that, or at least use enough developer to fill to the bottom of the funnel.

I may be kidding myself, but doing it this way I haven't run into an issue with air bells either.

You may want to run two test rolls, one with a rubber band on the reel holder to keep it from moving, and one without, each time using the same volume of developer. But unless it never happens again, I wouldn't right it off as a one off problem, and figure out what caused it.

 

[Auroraua]

Not sure if this could be the case, but I had similarish streaks on the side of my negative when scanned with v700 scanner.
When I used the v700 holders, it got better when I used v800 holders.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

This looks like a classic developing problem to me, not a film or camera defect.

The undeveloped part of the film (right side in the image) was at the top of the tank and, either because there was not enough solution or the reel crept up above the surface of the developer, simply did not get enough development.

The further streaks point to poor agitation during development.

Check to make sure you are using the proper amount of developer and that your reels are not climbing up out of the solution during development.

This will happen again if you don't.

Best,

Doremus

 

[drpsilver]

A light leak would make the image lighter, not darker. The image posted is a positive image, not a negative one.

08 Dec 2015

480sparky:

Agreed! What I was commenting on was the light vertical modeling in the sky. I have seldom seen vertical clouds the have straight edges.

Regards,
Darwin

 

[drpsilver]

This looks like a classic developing problem to me, not a film or camera defect.

The undeveloped part of the film (right side in the image) was at the top of the tank and, either because there was not enough solution or the reel crept up above the surface of the developer, simply did not get enough development.

The further streaks point to poor agitation during development.

Check to make sure you are using the proper amount of developer and that your reels are not climbing up out of the solution during development.

08 Dec 2015

Doremus:

I agree. If there is insufficient chemistry with poor agitation many of the effects seen in this print can be explained.

Regards,
Darwin