WD2D+ in Trays

[Tom Duffy]

I developed 2 sheets of 5x7 Tri-X in WD2D+ last night and followed John Wimberley's instructions as closely as I could, i.e., distilled water, one sheet at a time, etc.
Specifically, John's instruction vis-a-vis agitation are as follows:
"...agitate continuously by rocking the tray. Raise each side in turn at 2 second intervals."
The edges of the negatives (for about an inch in on each side), were considerably overdeveloped, compared to the center of the negative. Obviously a problem with my agitation technique.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to better approach? Should I go back to the more classic 6 sheet at a time interleaf method, or "swish" a single sheet of film around vigorously in a larger tray?

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[ken s]

I switched to a jobo 3 years ago and would not go back. Very consistant agitation and very few scratching problems. Ken

 

[Donald Miller]

Tom,
I have no experience with that particular developer but it seems that the results that you experienced were, as you acknowledged, a problem of agitation. I have always tray developed my sheet film and I do the classic 6 to 8 sheet interleaving that most tray developing photographers use. I have heard some say that they develop their stack with emulsion up and others find that having the emulsion down works best. I develop with emulsion down, since in my experience, I have found that my tendency to catch a corner coming down onto the swollen emulsion of the sheet on top is greater then the possiblity of scratching the emulsion on the bottom of the tray. But, whatever works best for each individual is what they should use. I think that consistancy in agitation is important. I pull the bottom sheet and bring it to the top. I go through the stack in a minute. That means each sheet is brought bottom to top every 8-10 seconds. Additionally every two minutes I turn the stack 180 degrees to keep away from the edge problems that you experienced. Other photographers reportedly turn the stack 90 degrees. I can understand where that would be more beneficial then my 180 degree rotation. I hope that this gives you some additional view as to process. Good luck in your photography.

Regards,
Donald Miller

 

[Tom Duffy]

Donald, thanks for the reply, agitating much more vigorously in a larger tray is giving me a nice, evenly developed and stained negative.

Ken, thanks, I use a Jobo, too, for xtol and d-76. I was never ever to get an evenly stained pyro negative with it though, not even when using Rollo Pyro.

For those interested, my development times in WD2D+ are much longer than suggested by John Wimberley, e.g. he recommends 10 min with tri-x; I need to develop for 15 min at 68 degrees. Although John recommends using distilled water, I get identical results using tap water. I'll try it with BPF over the weekend.

Tom

 

[Jorge]

Tom I hesitated to answer before since I dont want to sound "too" hung up on my technique, but if you dont mind doing one sheet at the time then I would recommend to you using the brush development I talked about. I do 12x20 this way and get the most smooth even negatives you could imagine. But then is a boring PITA method to do things. I also do my 8x10 negs in an 8x10 tray, no need to waste all that solution to fill an 11x14 tray. So for what is worth, if you want to know more, let me know I think there is a thread here about the brush developement if not I will e mail you the technique, is very simple.

 

[Donald Miller]

Jorge,

If you would be so kind, please email me your procedures on brush developing. I have been wondering how to do the bigger negs. So this will help.
Thanks

 

[Jorge]

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dnmilikan @ Feb 27 2003, 02:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Jorge,

If you would be so kind, please email me your procedures on brush developing. I have been wondering how to do the bigger negs. So this will help.
Thanks </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Will do Donald.

 

[Aggie]

..

 

[LFGuy]

Try this:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[ken s]

Hi, Ihave just developed my first batch of Rollo Pyro 8x10 negs and the stain appears to be even. I am not sure yet what to look for as I have yet to make any prints. Just got a Ziatype kit from B&S and am ready to try it. Wish me luck, Ken

 

[Jorge]

Ken, I hope you have better luck than I did with Zias....keep us posted. As to the stain, generally the uneveness will not be apparent until you print the image. So I do hope you are correct and are getting good negs too...

 

[Tom Duffy]

Ken,
I gave up on pyro (Rollo and PMK) in the Jobo about 2yrs ago. I found I was ruining more negatives then I was saving, with uneven staining. Particularly check the clear sky areas of your print. Naturally, the higher contrast paper you use the more obvious the problem. Meanwhile I get great consistancy in the jobo with HC-110, D-76 and Xtol.

However, the look of a pyro neg, particularly the detailed highlights keep me trying. Ironic that I'm going back to trays. Next thing you know I'll be looking for a green filter to develop by inspection!

Jorge, thanks for your offer of an explication of your brush technique. Any other method of agitation would seem to develop the edges more than the center of the neg, to whatever small degree. I'm sure Aggie's right, we'd all love to see it, perhaps it could be pinned as an article when you get the chance. type of brush, stroke technique would be most helpful.

take care,
Tom

 

[Jorge]

Ok the link that LFguy had posted pretty much covers it all, but here goes again. Get a 4 inch Hake brush with tied ferrules instead of the metal ones.

I like to work up and down the tray but if you are more comfortable working right to left and back it works also.

Wet the brush bristles prior to start the brushing, place the negative in the developing tray and with one hand you hold the negative by one corner and "guide" the brush along the lenght of the negative. Hold the brush very lightly with two fingers only. If you press too hard on the negative, specially with conventional developers, you will scratch the negative.

The brush has to actually touch the negative and remove the spent developer.
Keep brushing as you desire, but make sure when you start the brushing motion the bristles fall outside of the negative first or again you will see puncture marks, the brushing motion should be done with the side of the bristels not the ends. sort of like painting a wall.

This technique was the one used by astronomers to obtain the most even plates as it is critical for them to be even. Now they do it all by computer and digital, so it is actually a dying technique.

 

[Loose Gravel]

If I had high densities from tray development, I'd figure that I had turbulence at the edges caused by the liquid sloshing against the sides. Maybe use a bigger trayor a different type tray, or less liquid or look in the light how much turbulence you think you have. Personally, I'm using PMK with a Jobo drum on a roller base that I made. I purge the drum with nitrogen gas to reduce overall stain from oxygen. I also start by prewetting the negs with water. Then I drain off the water, add the part B of developer with half the water for 2 min. Then I add part A developer with the other half of water and start the clock. Works great, but I realize it is a pain to have a bottle of nitrogen around.

 

[Aggie]

..

 

[baronfoxx]

I develop 5x4 and 10x8 monochrome negs, one at a time, in a Paterson Orbital processor with a motor drive base and get good consistant results

 

[Aggie]

I just reread some of Gordon's book of pyro. He even has a desprition of how to add the nitrogen to the jobo in it....for those who would be interested. According to him at the workshop it is better that way than the rollo formula of pyro.

 

[lord-fox]

Hello All

When i was messing about with Pyro i used a Paterson Orbital Processor
for upto 4 sheets of 5x4 with no problems , it's also good for 10x8 negs
and you can pick them up on the second hand market at a fair price with the
motor base .

 

[johnwimberley]

How big were the trays in which you developed the 5x7 film? You should use at least 8x10 trays or the problem you encountered will definately occur. Also, how high did you lift the edges of the tray during agitation? 1/2 inch is sufficient. I tray process 5x7 film in WD2D+ and have tested evenness of development across the whole sheet. My negatives are within d = 0.02, so it is possible to get even results.