Viva GB

Curt · Jan 17, 2006

My name is Curt Jackson; my grandparents were from England and Ireland. I need a couple of rolls of Adox/Efke 25 for an job I was lucky to get. JandC has no timeline for the availability so I ask retro photographic ltd for some.
Here is their reply.

Curt,

We only have a very small quantity of the 50 which I prefer to keep for regular UK customers. I am sure that J&C will get some in due course.

retro photographic ltd

At the risk of offending everybody I will just let you decide.

Curt

pentaxuser · Jan 17, 2006

Curt said:
My name is Curt Jackson; my grandparents were from England and Ireland. I need a couple of rolls of Adox/Efke 25 for an job I was lucky to get. JandC has no timeline for the availability so I ask retro photographic ltd for some.
Here is their reply.

Curt,

We only have a very small quantity of the 50 which I prefer to keep for regular UK customers. I am sure that J&C will get some in due course.

retro photographic ltd

At the risk of offending everybody I will just let you decide.

Curt

The key phrase here may be "Regular UK customers". In other words irregular UK based customers or first time customers in the U.K. like me may not get any either until the stock situation improves.

I can understand this. If Retro fails to satisfy its regulars then it may jeopardise its regular income stream.

Just an alternative explanation which may be more palatable.

Pentaxuser

Mick Fagan · Jan 17, 2006

Instead of fobbing you off with some story, they told it to you straight.

I think that's quite good.

Mick.

moose10101 · Jan 18, 2006

Curt said:
my grandparents were from England and Ireland.

What does this have to do with buying film?

Daniel Lawton · Jan 18, 2006

Regardless of nationality it doesn't seem like a good way to lure in future regular customers.

eumenius · Jan 18, 2006

These guys were plainly rude to you. That's really out of normal seller's behaviour - just don't buy from them anymore. They openly imply that there are two kinds of customers, and that you're inferior - I don't think you need such opinions for free

Andy K · Jan 18, 2006

I agree with Mick. They were honest and upfront. No excuses, no lies. That has guaranteed they will get my business in future. I like dealing with honest companies.

eumenius · Jan 18, 2006

Yes, they're honest and upfront - just plainly peeing in face of their new customer. Maybe he's about to bring them a big income, or he's really in need of this film, who knows? Perhaps that's my own post-Soviet mentality, but personally I would prefer here a sweet lie like "sorry, it's out of stock now". It's damn unright to tell to the customer that he's not a priority, on my opinion. After all, if the goods in store are already reserved for someone else, why there's a need to say that they're available? Or we are getting not enough disappointment already?

Andy K said:
I agree with Mick. They were honest and upfront. No excuses, no lies. That has guaranteed they will get my business in future. I like dealing with honest companies.

Andy K · Jan 18, 2006

Many shops operate a 'reserved stock' policy for regular customers. I see no difference here.

Bob F. · Jan 18, 2006

10 out of 10 for honesty. Perhaps somewhat less for Public Relations. But then, I for one would rather deal with an honest seller than one that relies on good PR to stay in business - far too many of those about already...

So some would prefer to be lied to??? What a weird concept. "Oh, my God! The world does not revolve around me after all and I am so hopelessly insecure that I would rather people lie to me than be faced with that life shattering realisation"....

Unbelievable!

Quick disclaimer: I have never bought anything from Retro as they do not stock much of anything I use.

Cheers, Bob.

Andy K · Jan 18, 2006

Have any of you people ever been to a builder's yard? I have and many times have been told, sorry that batch is reserved for so and so. Shops do this all the time. Why shouldn't someone who sells on the web do the same.
I dunno, maybe you would prefer to be lied to.

John Bartley · Jan 18, 2006

Nice honest straightforward answer. Very lacking in todays "the customer is always right" retail society.

cheers

Jorge · Jan 18, 2006

I think the key sentence is:

We only have a very small quantity of the 50 which I prefer to keep for regular UK customers

Which says nothing as to the film being reserved by a previous customer. To me this implies that although the film has not been spoken for, they rather wait until a "regular" customer shows up than sell it to a new one. I am with Jay here, I would never think of doing business with a store that does not feel my money is good enough for them.

Then again, if I owned a store and had inventory on the shelfs I would sell it to whoever wants to buy it....silly me, I thought that was the reason to have a store..... :confused:

Daniel Lawton · Jan 18, 2006

So I guess all those tourists or "outsiders" with funny foreign accents I see at B+H perusing the remaining Agfa products should be put on the back burner for people like me who routinely buy from B+H? Nonsense. If the product is advertised for sale, then he who comes with the money gets it. If the last of the product has been paid for and is waiting to be picked up fine, but otherwise its a good way to go bankrupt once the regulars go digital or get a better bulk discount from someone else.

sanderx1 · Jan 18, 2006

Daniel Lawton said:
So I guess all those tourists or "outsiders" with funny foreign accents I see at B+H perusing the remaining Agfa products should be put on the back burner for people like me who routinely buy from B+H? Nonsense. If the product is advertised for sale, then he who comes with the money gets it. If the last of the product has been paid for and is waiting to be picked up fine, but otherwise its a good way to go bankrupt once the regulars go digital or get a better bulk discount from someone else.

Am I the only one who is more than a little puzzled by this comparison of retro thotographic to b&h?

Daniel Lawton · Jan 18, 2006

sanderx1 said:
Am I the only one who is more than a little puzzled by this comparison of retro thotographic to b&h?

No offense but I'm a little puzzled as to why you are puzzled. If I routinely shop at a particular photo store whether it be Retrgraphic, B+H, Calumet or whatever, I am under no impression that the store management should withold products from "outside" or casual buyers so that I can have priority if and when I should decide to buy them. Is there something about Retrographic that makes them different?

Andy K · Jan 18, 2006

I just don't get it. You are actually offended by a company being honest. How would you feel if Retro had said, 'Sorry that's out of stock at the moment.' and then later you discover it was in stock but held back for another customer? Presumably that would be ok, because they lied and spared your feelings?

Daniel Lawton · Jan 18, 2006

Me no I'm not offended by honesty, that was someone else. I would however be a little put off if I as a film shooter attempted to by film from a film distributor and was told I couldn't buy it because one of their "preferred" customers "might" decide to buy it in the future. Can anyone honestly say this wouldn't bother them if they experienced this in a photo retailer outside their home turf.

sanderx1 · Jan 18, 2006

Daniel Lawton said:
No offense but I'm a little puzzled as to why you are puzzled. If I routinely shop at a particular photo store whether it be Retrgraphic, B+H, Calumet or whatever, I am under no impression that the store management should withold products from "outside" or casual buyers so that I can have priority if and when I should decide to buy them. Is there something about Retrographic that makes them different?

As far as I can tell, retrophotographic is a small, largely UK centric outfit that doesn't have a RW storefront. Comparing it to huge stores with considerably wider audience (and Calumet has presence in what? 4 countries?) just seems really weird. Their customer base is going to be much different.

If they refused to ship outside the EU or even UK (you are aware that most web stores in US don't ship to anywhere except the US, right?), one couldn't really fault them. If they feel that they need to reserve some percentage of stock for their CORE customers (and the UK customers are going to be their core customers) then really, there isn't anything wrong with that. UK is where most of their sales will be and the UK customers are really the ones who are going to decide if they sink or swim.

For examples of large US comapnies doing much worse than retro photographic, consider amazon and its policies on shipping dvd-s and electronics.

Daniel Lawton · Jan 18, 2006

FWIW I went to Retrophotographic and checked out the terms and conditions of sale. They do say that for destinations outside the U.K. they need to be contacted prior. In this case I can understand their rationale. I was under the impression they advertised sales and shipping to all destinations and then gave the customer a runaround. I admit my judgement was alittle harsh considering they make no claims of international delivery. Apologies
Dan

Curt · Jan 18, 2006

I want to thank all for the comments. I am with Jay though I have a cabinet shop and was a CB in the Navy. When I go to a wholesale or retail outlet here and I see a bundle of product in stock that isn't to be sold, it will has the last name of the buyer on it.

Daniel Lawton · Jan 18, 2006

Yes but I can understand this in a way. They do appear to be a pretty small outfit and like any small outfit here in the U.S. they may not be equiped or interested in making a large-scale committment to overseas delivery. The reason they don't list overseas shipping charges is because they deal with it on an "as need" basis and by requiring the customer to contact them ahead of time they can determine whether the sale is feasable or worthwhile. To me it isn't shady buisness techniques since they don't promise sales and overseas delivery but say they must be contacted prior to any overseas purchases. If I was a small time buisness and could get by on regional sales I would consider the same policy in all honesty now that I realize the situation. In a way its like people on Ebay who won't ship outside the U.S. or require overseas bidders to contact them prior to bidding. If you can get by without the hassles of overseas sales then it may be the prudent thing to do.

Andy K · Jan 19, 2006

jdef said:
Adox 25 is not listed as 'unavailable'.

Jay

...and retro did not say it was unavailable. They said they were keeping it back for regular customers. If they'd said the same to me I'd have accepted it and moved on. I would not have cried my eyes out about it.

Personally I'm getting a bit tired of threads being started purely to slam companies/magazines/people in the film/photographic world, who might have slightly inconvenienced someone. These are not great times for film, we should be sticking together, not whining and wailing like cats in a bag.

Ps. I have lost count of the times I have been told by companies outside Europe, "Yes we have that in stock but we won't ship it to you.' I saw no point starting threads to slam those companies.

haris · Jan 19, 2006

Andy K said:
...and retro did not say it was unavailable. They said they were keeping it back for regular customers. If they'd said the same to me I'd have accepted it and moved on. I would not have cried my eyes out about it.

Personally I'm getting a bit tired of threads being started purely to slam companies/magazines/people in the film/photographic world, who might have slightly inconvenienced someone. These are not great times for film, we should be sticking together, not whining and wailing like cats in a bag.

Ps. I have lost count of the times I have been told by companies outside Europe, "Yes we have that in stock but we won't ship it to you.' I saw no point starting threads to slam those companies.

Andy, I can't agree with you. It is one thing if seller tells me "Sorry, this product(s) are already reserved for xy (person or company)." That way I know someone was faster than me and reserved products for him/her self. Or regular customers came to shop and said "Please, if this product arrive keep it for me and inform me, I will buy it". I am not angry in that situation. But, if seller tells me "Sorry, we will not sell you this because some of our regular customers MAYBE would want this (but maybe not)", well in that case I am angry, and I don't see any excuse for that.

And if one company has products but say "Yes we have that in stock but we won't ship it to you." in your example, yes it is reason for slaming those companies.

argus · Jan 19, 2006

haris said:
But, if seller tells me "Sorry, we will not sell you this because some of our regular customers MAYBE would want this (but maybe not)", well in that case I am angry, and I don't see any excuse for that.

So true. If someone runs out of any sort of supplies, he/she should have stocked some more. Relying on a shop to keep some in case he/she drops by is totally wrong.

Either stock more yourself or put an order that will be waiting in the shop for you personally.

Whenever I open a last box of paper/film or bottle of chemistry, next thing I do is go to the shop and buy a next bottle/box for stocking at home.

Honesty of a shop keeper is one thing, but unwillingness to sell to passers-by will kill their business.

Curt has a point here.

Andy K said:
I have lost count of the times I have been told by companies outside Europe, "Yes we have that in stock but we won't ship it to you.' I saw no point starting threads to slam those companies.

Why? I hope you're not a bad payer because that would be a valid reason.

G

Viva GB

haris

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