Using Staining Developers for Alternative Processes

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Vlad Soare

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Hi guys,

One of the advantages of staining developers is said to be that they can give you negatives which can be printed as well on silver halide paper as with alternative processes. The theory sounds plausible: a good part of the highlight density is built by stain, which on VC papers acts like a contrast filter, but for alternative processes acts like a UV blocking filter.
I've read Sandy King's excellent article on staining developers at Unblinking Eye, and on page 2 he says that "Pyrocat-HD is a better developer for making dual-purpose negatives, i.e. as for printing with regular silver papers and with AZO or alternative processes with the same negatives.".

OK, so far so good. I can't wait to try this myself.

However, on page 4 I see something completely different. Let's say, for instance, that I'm using T-Max 400 and want to make vandyke prints.
Optimum CI for silver prints is 0.47 to 0.52.
Optimum CI for vandyke prints is 0.85 to 0.95.
Looking at figure 19, I see that in order to get a CI of 0.47 to 0.52 measured by the visible light channel (good for silver halide prints, that is) the development time must be between 8 and 12 minutes at 71F, using the 1:1:100 dilution.
Figure 13 shows that a CI between 0.85 and 0.95 measured by the UV channel (good for vandyke prints, that is) requires a development time between 13 and 16 minutes at 73F, using the 2:2:100 dilution.

Now I'm confused. A negative suitable for vandyke prints seems to require a stronger dilution and a longer development at a higher temperature (or an even longer development at the same temperature, I presume) than a negative suitable for silver halide prints.
So I'm back where I started from: exposing a separate sheet of film for vandyke and developing it separately. :confused:

What am I missing? :confused:

Thank you.
 

sanking

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Mar 26, 2003
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Hi guys,

One of the advantages of staining developers is said to be that they can give you negatives which can be printed as well on silver halide paper as with alternative processes. The theory sounds plausible: a good part of the highlight density is built by stain, which on VC papers acts like a contrast filter, but for alternative processes acts like a UV blocking filter.
I've read Sandy King's excellent article on staining developers at Unblinking Eye, and on page 2 he says that "Pyrocat-HD is a better developer for making dual-purpose negatives, i.e. as for printing with regular silver papers and with AZO or alternative processes with the same negatives.".

OK, so far so good. I can't wait to try this myself.

However, on page 4 I see something completely different. Let's say, for instance, that I'm using T-Max 400 and want to make vandyke prints.
Optimum CI for silver prints is 0.47 to 0.52.
Optimum CI for vandyke prints is 0.85 to 0.95.
Looking at figure 19, I see that in order to get a CI of 0.47 to 0.52 measured by the visible light channel (good for silver halide prints, that is) the development time must be between 8 and 12 minutes at 71F, using the 1:1:100 dilution.
Figure 13 shows that a CI between 0.85 and 0.95 measured by the UV channel (good for vandyke prints, that is) requires a development time between 13 and 16 minutes at 73F, using the 2:2:100 dilution.

Now I'm confused. A negative suitable for vandyke prints seems to require a stronger dilution and a longer development at a higher temperature (or an even longer development at the same temperature, I presume) than a negative suitable for silver halide prints.
So I'm back where I started from: exposing a separate sheet of film for vandyke and developing it separately. :confused:

What am I missing? :confused:

Thank you.

Well, here is the way it is. All alternative processes don't require the same CI. Vandyke happens to be one that requires a very high contrast negative, and moreover there is no way to control contrast with it. So when I wrote that a stained negative could serve as a good dual purpose negative for printing with silver and alternative processes I was thinking more of pt/pd where a lower CI is required, and where there is also a mechanism for controlling contrast.

Other processes that require very high contrast negatives are albumen and salted paper.

I am sorry this was confusing but it is just not possible to cover, or even anticipate in advance, every possible scenario.

Sandy King
 

Peter Schrager

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Jul 19, 2004
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fairfield co
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I've been using my TMY negatives developed in pyrocat-mc for azo;salt and platinum with no issues (all at same CI)...I develop separately for silver in xtol as backup....
Best, Peter
 
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