Time to re-focus the scope of discussions on Photrio

[jtk]

When I get together with others in our photo club, we discuss other things besides photography. How boring to only discuss photography. We do other things in life and photography is a way to get to know other people, what they think, and how it affects their photography.

Also, photography is political in nature and can be religious and social. How can you ignore what photos are saying to people? Much of what we see today in photos is propaganda. Look at the photos coming in now from Ukraine and not discuss how they affect your thought politically, socially, and emotionally. If you eliminate the soapbox, then a discussion about those photos would be forbidden. What would you be able to say if someone posted a picture of a child with her arm blown off? Getting rid of the soapbox would eliminate those discussions. The photo is meaningless without them.

Could you discuss Middle Age art without discussing the religious points of most of the art of that period? Think about Malplethorp photos and the religious and social implications. Photography is art and art affects social, religious, and political thought. You can't have one without the other. If all you discuss is grain, and sharpness, how boring this forum would be.

"Photography is art"... that's ridiculous on its face. I don't think Photrio should serve the needs of KKK members or religious fanatics. Please confirm Mappelthorp's spelling before citing him again. Show a little respect.

 

[George Mann]

It's hard for me to post photos. My digital files are too large. I'm not a computer guy. My analog prints have no way of being showed properly. This is why I don't post pictures.

If you use Windows, there is a free program called Irfanview that you can use to resize your photos.

 

[Truzi]

The real damage to non Soapbox members is when a non Soapbox thread ends up in the Soapbox as a result of it straying from the "innocent" thread's intent and it then being consigned to the Soapbox by the mods

So it seems to me that the mods work may not be lessened when the Soapbox is eliminated. In fact it may increase as what will be the alternative then?

We have a few examples of that happening in photography-related areas right now.

A system of warnings, then deletion of the offending thread and eventual banning of the guilty party seems like the only alternative. That's fine but this is likely to need as much if not more invigilation than is the case now when the current method is a simple removal to the Soapbox and forget about it. End of problem and it is one that is increasingly used

I remain to be convinced that removal of the Soapbox is likely to improve the trend of descent into unnecessary conflict which I agree, is happening more quickly than my perception tells me it use to happen even as little as 5 or less years ago

pentaxuser

Happening more often and quickly may be due in part to the structure of consequences. Dealing with it differently seems to be the future plan, but I don't think it matters where these things occur - to be effective it will be increased work with or without the Soapbox.

I do want to see the problems reduced, but question the long-term efficacy of simply removing a section. I don't think it is going to work quite the way it is imagined, and that is the issue I have with it. Symptom versus Cause.

Most people would vote against Wet and Hybrid Prints forum topic too as they're a minority. But you have it because there are some people who are interested. So having a minority that wants to keep off topic discussions is really not a good poll indicator on whether to keep it or not. If people are interested in it, then you should keep it. The rest of the people don't have to go there just like they don't go to Wet and Hybrid Prints. I think it's how it's regulated that's important. See my last post.

I agree with this. I rarely agree with Alan, and you know what? I usually don't say anything because it's not a big deal. When he makes comments they are typically very measured and appropriate. Thus we have examples of people who can do this.

Removing a section of the site will not prevent people who feel a need to get nasty with their disagreements from doing so.

I'm all for improving the atmosphere here, but question whether removing a symptom is the answer. It will likely require, as others have stated, more moderation work - the lack of moderation resources being part of the rationale for removing it.

I believe the need for moderation will be roughly equal to now - just that the structural change will actually require that moderation take place, so it will appear to be an increase. I'm not sure it will really matter in which sub-fora this occurs.

Individuals are not why I severely truncated my engagement with this site. I may respond to individuals, or choose not to interact - whatever. It's easy to complain about the latest person being nasty, but I seriously doubt I'm the only one who has for years felt pushed away by how issues are dealt with.

For the record, and I've stated this before, my issue isn't with the disruptive individuals themselves. Rather, it is how these issues are handled, and how other people get caught in the broad elephant-gun approach when something is indeed done.

Replace the Soapbox, with a sub-forum where one can only post something nice about the poster above in the thread..!!

I've actually considered creating a thread in the Soapbox to that effect, only because I wanted to see the title edited to say " - Moved from the Soapbox," lol.

 

[Ian Grant]

I've said no.

I think we need free speech but, may be more moderated. I do make political or maybe environmental statements with my photography, who ever likes or dislikes it,I don't care. I;ll just be honest.

Ian

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...Your facebook or twitter page is like your own forum to populate with whomever you want to talk to about anything...

Never, ever. Neither of those horrors. Especially Zuckerworld.

Come on David, do you really want to promote PHOTRIO members leaving it to instead "hang out" at those places? Because that, in effect, is what you're doing.

 

[DonW]

For a couple of members loosing the soapbox would be like loosing a loved one lol.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

Never, ever. Neither of those horrors. Especially Zuckerworld.

Come on David, do you really want to promote PHOTRIO members leaving it to instead "hang out" at those places? Because that, in effect, is what you're doing.

If you're just here for the Soapbox, then yes, there are better places to have political discussions, then if you want to talk photography, come back, or not if you'd rather not. There are plenty of users on the forum and there's always something to talk about.

 

[Willyekerslike]

I may be wrong but I have the impression that many of the argumants that turn nasty involve personal emails/contacts away from the forum. If this is the case I think it would be a good idea if one could prevent off forum contact by members ticking a box that says they do not want this type of contact.

I know this is done for users that have been ignored but a global one would nice in my opinion.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

If you're just here for the Soapbox, then yes, there are better places to have political discussions...

I never indicated I was "just here for the Soap Box." In fact, until Sean changed his policy, as a "mere" member I didn't even have access to it, and nonetheless racked up a considerable number of posts in the regular forum categories, contributing what information/knowledge I could.

...then if you want to talk photography, come back, or not if you'd rather not. There are plenty of users on the forum and there's always something to talk about.

I never indicated I was "leaving" PHOTRIO because the Soap Box is going away. Yes, there are plenty of clicks hitting this Web site to discuss things that have been covered over and over again. On those occasions when something comes up that hasn't been threaded to death, I still add whatever useful inputs I can.

You might also note that I never, ever violate the rule against politics/religion in regular forum categories. When observing others transgressing, I've always reported them to the moderators. My concern now is that, without your "safety valve" (the Soap Box), either you'll be getting lots more such reports -- and not just from me -- or a bunch of political/religious content will pollute the photographic threads. Good luck to moderators in dealing with that inevitable mess.

 

[BrianShaw]

It’s ironic, but over on another forum that doesn’t have a Soapbox there seems no trouble discussing photography, and interesting side stuff in a lounge area… without politics, religion, and a lot of chaos. It can be done.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

1. This is a private website. There is no free speech, so give that argument a rest.
2. The soapbox spills over. No point to having a toxic environment anywhere on the website even if people can't see it. They can see the toxic spillover though. Brings down the rest of the site.
3. Zero tolerance for certain topics and certain behavior. Certain people need to be banned. We all know who they are. No slap on the wrists either. Start with a week ban and go up from there. They will get the message. If they are good people that made a mistake, it happens and they learn. The jagoffs though never learn. Weed them out.

If the website is cleaned up, then more people will feel safe here. I don't post that much anymore myself because of the crap frankly. I don't want to be attacked by one of the jagoffs like John had to endure for a loooong time. That person is still here posting nonsense and contributing very little of substance.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

It’s ironic, but over on another forum that doesn’t have a Soapbox there seems no trouble discussing just photography, and interesting side stuff in a lounge area… without politics, religion, and a lot of chaos. It can be done.

And the same posters whose political/religious transgressions are regularly deleted there by the aggressive moderation team (of which I fully approve) are the ones who get threads moved to the Soap Box here. Daily posts at the large format forum to which you refer are a minuscule fraction of PHOTRIO's traffic. Good luck to the moderators here.

 

[mshchem]

If you use Windows, there is a free program called Irfanview that you can use to resize your photos.

I'm sure there is. No interest. I think this place is mostly people who sit at a computer and type. I need to spend more time away from all this.

There's a whole world out there

 

[mshchem]

Never, ever. Neither of those horrors. Especially Zuckerworld.

Come on David, do you really want to promote PHOTRIO members leaving it to instead "hang out" at those places? Because that, in effect, is what you're doing.

I have no Twitter or Facebook. LFPF is more difficult to negotiate for me. That's where I started, I came over here for PhotoEngineer

 

[Mike Lopez]

"Photography is art"... that's ridiculous on its face. I don't think Photrio should serve the needs of KKK members or religious fanatics. Please confirm Mappelthorp's spelling before citing him again. Show a little respect.

Are you trying to make a point by laying into Alan’s misspelling of Mapplethorpe before screwing it up yourself?

 

[mshchem]

Are you trying to make a point by laying into Alan’s misspelling of Mapplethorpe before screwing it up yourself?

HA!!

 

[BrianShaw]

And the same posters whose political/religious transgressions are regularly deleted there by the aggressive moderation team (of which I fully approve) are the ones who get threads moved to the Soap Box here. Daily posts at the large format forum to which you refer are a minuscule fraction of PHOTRIO's traffic. Good luck to the moderators here.

With all due respect, it seems that you are completely missing the point.

 

[Sean]

The new system will go some way to alerting people of the rules, as a post occurs it could be flagged based on known key words and halted with the member needing to confirm it adheres to the forum rules, so that such posts are not made in the first place. The system might say "We've detected "Biden" in your post, please be aware political posts are off-topic" etc. The report post function will also be expanded to include categories and if multiple parties report something, and it passes a threshold of reports it can be put in limbo until mods have a look at it. We'll be expanding the moderation team to 2 tiers.. 1) senior mods 2) community mods. Initially I am aiming for 5-7 senior mods and 15-20 community mods. Community mods will be able to quickly engage with off-topic content/poor behavior and put it in limbo while a senior mod can make a final decision on it. Members that cause problems will be given low grade warnings with a system that will build over time resulting in periods of banning and ultimately full bans.

I regret that I have been scarce for 2yrs due to some full time IT work, it has taken a gradual toll on the tone of the community. Thank goodness for our current mods holding it together. As mentioned, I just resigned to put all my energy back into the community. A huge focus of this will be to restore the tone to friendly and on-topic. I appreciate the patience of those who seek this kind of environment, it is on the way.

 

[mshchem]

The new system will go some way to alerting people of the rules, as a post occurs it could be flagged based on known key words and halted with the member needing to confirm it adheres to the forum rules, so that such posts are not made in the first place. The system might say "We've detected "Biden" in your post, please be aware political posts are off-topic" etc. The report post function will also be expanded to include categories and if multiple parties report something, and it passes a threshold of reports it can be put in limbo until mods have a look at it. We'll be expanding the moderation team to 2 tiers.. 1) senior mods 2) community mods. Initially I am aiming for 5-7 senior mods and 15-20 community mods. Community mods will be able to quickly engage with off-topic content/poor behavior and put it in limbo while a senior mod can make a final decision on it. Members that cause problems will be given low grade warnings with a system that will build over time resulting in periods of banning and ultimately full bans.

I regret that I have been scarce for 2yrs due to some full time IT work, it has taken a gradual toll on the tone of the community. Thank goodness for our current mods holding it together. As mentioned, I just resigned to put all my energy back into the community. A huge focus of this will be to restore the tone to friendly and on-topic. I appreciate the patience of those who seek this kind of environment, it is on the way.

Oh Brother

 

[BrianShaw]

Better late than never, Sean.

 

[Down Under]

fwiw I don't seek the company of photographers...I'm more interested in company of artists. Few photographers are artists and there are better places to find them.

My thoughts and sentiments exactly!! Like so many others, I've severely limited my postings here in the last 12-18 months mostly due to the cartel of malcontents who seem to believe they rule the place and gang up to leap down the throats of anyone expressing a contrary opinion to their cherished personal shibboleths.

Any action taken by this site's owner/s to curb these troublemakers would, I think, immediately improve everything in this site - but I've yet to see any firm or long-lasting action taken to do this.

As well, the case of a long-standing member recently banned for speaking his mind, at times somewhat too strongly but as I saw it always politely, is only one case of far too many in the past. John was an inspired (and at least to me, inspiring) contributor and I for one miss him.

When I make a decision I've usually thought about it long and at length before i do, and after i go i tend to stay away. In future I will continue reading those forums that interest me and now and then, if I believe I can contribute something worthwhile to a discussion about photography, I will. But I no longer consider myself an active participant as to me this site has become too much like a right-wing political party whose polemics I would never believe in and cannot accept.

Harsh, maybe. But it's about principles, and how I try to live my life.

Anyway, to return to the main topic at hand - and try to put a positive spin on this post - I believe the soap box is divisive and unnecessary. Give the damn thing the final chop and be done with it.

 

[BrianShaw]

Oznoose… John was not banned. He left by his own choice.

 

[Down Under]

Oznoose… John was not banned. He left by his own choice.

Many thanks for this post. I stand corrected. My apologies if I've caused offence to anyone in writing this.

I do miss him and I'm sure many others do. And I hope he will return. He was always entertaining in everything he wrote, and in this sad and sorry day and age, to be entertaining is a welcome trait.

PS I am not unaware (another apology for the double negative, ha!!) that I've just now broken my own self-imposed 'rule' by posting two times in a row. But then humans are nothing if not inconsistent - and full of double negatives not only in words.

Something about The Eleventh Commandment has just come to my mind...

My Twelfth Commandment - I must try to curb my impulse to keep adding notes to my posts. Again, ha!!

 

[AgX]

...I think it would be a good idea if one could prevent off forum contact by members ticking a box that says they do not want this type of contact.

There is already such feature, in the last section of the "privacy" settings at ones profile.

But think about such decision again. I often realized that I would like to ask a question or give advise on a request in a thread that is too detailed or personal to be placed in the thread. When rejecting PMs, well then you won't receive such advice.

 

[BrianShaw]

I stand corrected. My apologies if I've caused offence to anyone in writing this.

I do miss him and I'm sure many others do. And I hope he will return. He was always entertaining in everything he wrote, and in this sad and sorry day and age, to be entertaining is a welcome trait.

No problem at all. Like you, I hope things change and he returns.