Time to re-focus the scope of discussions on Photrio

[Sean]

Hi All,

I increasingly see no benefit to politics, religion, war, covid dramas, economy, etc being discussed in various areas of the site (such as the soap box or lounge areas). I am ok with off-topic discussions if they stick to hobbies or such (music, other arts etc). I don't want to see a percentage of the membership here at each others throats and bickering 24/7, this is not good! We need to re-focus our efforts and get back to the core foundation of the community.

There are 100s of venues to discuss and argue politics and such. I don't see Photrio needed to be that place any longer.

I'll post a poll to see where the sentiment lies, but from the point of view of admin and moderators we would prefer to remove this content, and any future attempts at it would be considered off-topic and removed. It is beginning to cause damage.

Thanks,
Sean

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Get rid of the soap box.

 

[Old_Dick]

+1

 

[Duceman]

Get rid of the soap box. It is nothing but a bully pulpit and has nothing to do with a site that is supposed to be dedicated to photography.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Agree 100% with this.

Photography is about stopping, looking, being quiet, contemplating, and it's a bit paradoxical that we'd want to contribute to all the noise out there.

Only political discussion I'm willing to tolerate is if it's specifically related to a photographer's socio-political stance and how it translate into his or her photography. But that has everything to do with how photography looks at the world and nothing to do with voicing an opinion.

 

[AgX]

As Alex says, photography related politics at least should be allowed in this forum.

Just as an example: The right to take photos, the right to publish photos is a wide field and under heavy pressure the last years.

 

[Cholentpot]

I like the community, I like the discussions. People have what to say and are generally more informed and polite on this site than others. I say let things go organically.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Here we go, my post got deleted. Absolutely, let's just focus on photography. Why should we care, let us be complicit.

 

[gone]

I miss the old message boards. This didn't happen back then, but the world has changed, especially the internet. APUG/Photorio is the only forum I belong to anymore, and it's a great place (one of the very, very few left) where one can connect w/ knowledgeable people who are passionate about photography. There are plenty of other forums for non-photo interests.

 

[Sean]

Here we go, my post got deleted. Absolutely, let's just focus on photography. Why should we care, let us be complicit.

I'm sure everyone here cares, but we have had this forum participation rule for almost 20yrs: "no religious/political discussions or statements in the general forums".

 

[radiant]

I miss the old message boards. This didn't happen back then, but the world has changed, especially the internet. APUG/Photorio is the only forum I belong to anymore, and it's a great place (one of the very, very few left) where one can connect w/ knowledgeable people who are passionate about photography. There are plenty of other forums for non-photo interests.

That is true. This place has that '90-2000 time vibe that I miss too. I see connection between between film photography and that time.

I really don't know why here should be any other discussions than photography. Remove soap box & politics.

ps. I've been news free for about 72 hours now. I mean 100% free. I've blocked all sites etc. with care. I have no idea what is going on in this world. It bugs me a bit but at the same time I know it is really really good for me.

 

[radiant]

I'm sure everyone here cares, but we have had this forum participation rule for almost 20yrs: "no religious/political discussions or statements in the general forums".

That is why there should be more active moderation. Why set rules if aren't going to monitor them?

 

[wiltw]

Ban individuals for bad behavior that goes beyond defined limits. Another forum is very well controlled by establishing and maintaining certain standards of behavior. Photrio members' behavior recently has reminded me of the chronic bad behavior seen in internet newgroups of 30 years ago...I consciously abandoned participation on those forums for that very reason...out of control children. I certainly am glad continued bad behavior is not condoned, but the problem really is some individuals, not the relevance of discussion. Unruly behavior happens in discussions about photographic topics, too.

 

[Richard Man]

I hardly participate on this site, let alone the soapbox, and I do think that there are better sites to talk about politics etc.

However, I will 100% withdraw from this site (yes, I know, who cares) if we remove the soapbox. No one needs to participate but let people speak.

I do agree that strong moderations should be enforced in the regular forums

 

[Sean]

I hardly participate on this site, let alone the soapbox, and I do think that there are better sites to talk about politics etc.

However, I will 100% withdraw from this site (yes, I know, who cares) if we remove the soapbox. No one needs to participate but let people speak.

I do agree that strong moderations should be enforced in the regular forums

Hi Richard, does it bother you that we've had many good members leave recently due to the vitriol and fights in the soapbox, because it is becoming a weekly occurrence at this stage. But it does appear we can't win. We keep the soapbox people leave from the fighting, we remove the soapbox, people leave because this off topic MMA style arena is blocked. I will have to side with whatever is less toxic to the community and so far, I would say it is the soapbox. We are losing too many people over these soapbox wars.

 

[Sean]

Ban individuals for bad behavior that goes beyond defined limits. Another forum is very well controlled by establishing and maintaining certain standards of behavior. Photrio members' behavior recently has reminded me of the chronic bad behavior seen in internet newgroups of 30 years ago...I consciously abandoned participation on those forums for that very reason...out of control children. I certainly am glad continued bad behavior is not condoned, but the problem really is some individuals, not the relevance of discussion. Unruly behavior happens in discussions about photographic topics, too.

We're working on this, with better tools in the new version which is close to launch. One thing we do not have resource for is to monitor an off-topic area full of bickering and fighting. It's not worth it. We couldn't control it so left it off topic, but it's gotten too much, it has to go.

 

[DonW]

I had my go at the soapbox and it just wasn't for me. I asked to join and asked to be removed. People aren't forced to see what goes on there.

I voted for no religion etc and I also believe repeat offenders need to be punted. Bullying can still occur without bringing up banned topics. Civility must be enforced! Snide, demeaning comments don't belong here imho.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

Plenty of places to talk war\covid\trash\whatever. Not so much on Photography. If one cares that much - PM functionality is up there, members in/near conflict zones are available to talk to. The rest is on the legit news channels.

 

[Truzi]

Beginning to cause damage? Leaving recently? Did I fall through a time-warp before finding this thread?

I do find the Soapbox entertaining, and it also gives me insight into members of this community that would otherwise only be experienced with in-person interactions that could not be restricted. I actually find that part valuable - being able to get a feel for people like I would IRL. My interactions here are basically the same as if we were face-to-face, except I get to edit out misspellings and grammatical errors when I catch them (then again, these things are not as evident in spoken word)

These very problems used to be rampant in the regular areas, which lead to my lack of support and extreme reduction of participation on the site. The Soapbox existed, but had not taken over as the problem area.
There is a good point about moderation, and that bullying and bad behavior does occur in the regular areas - which causes many threads to be moved to the Soapbox instead of being moderated.

Moderation will still be as necessary as it is now, just like my mom still needs clean dishes even though she has refused to buy a new dishwasher for many years. She hand-washes until her hands crack and bleed. No matter now much she ignores it, though, the problem doesn't go away.

A doctor once told me he treats the cause, not the symptom. I read the Soapbox, but rarely participate in it. In a way, I don't really care, but voted No as a matter of principle.

 

[Richard Man]

Hi Richard, does it bother you that we've had many good members leave recently due to the vitriol and fights in the soapbox, because it is becoming a weekly occurrence at this stage.

Sean, I don't know how to fix the problem of people leaving. All I know is that

• Soapbox is supposed to be opt-in'ed. People that go into an MMA arena should know what they are getting into.
• "analogue-only" forums always have a holier-than-thou feeling anyway. Even if there are no "your guy sucks", there's always the "why would you use X film? It's shit!" - that is, this forum is going to attract people with strong opinions. That's literally the characters of this forum.

I was banned in the other famous large format forum because I refused to post my transgender portraits without posting words from the sitters ("ooo so dangerous"). I am sure the moderators there are "the nicest people", but eff that sh*t. Perhaps this is not the same at all, but this is a dangerous trend.

But I can see the writings on the wall, currently it's 43 votes against 3. I do offer you good luck, and I do not envy your position.

 

[mooseontheloose]

I think this is a good decision. As already mentioned, there are plenty of other places to discuss these issues. I think another problem with political or other contentious topics that get discussed in the lounge or soapbox often spill over into the forums themselves - even if people remain on topic (which they rarely do), hostilities that are allowed to develop in one area mean that certain members get targeted elsewhere with snide remarks and other trolling behaviour. PMs are another place where members can be attacked, so one would never know from the forums that something is going on.

I hope there is more moderation and stricter consequences for rule breakers. It's not just the regular members who are leaving, but newcomers who join and leave when they realize what type of site this is (and it only takes ONE bad response to turn someone off a site. Very unfortunate for the newcomers asking innocent questions - it was never like that when I first joined). I've tried sending people here for years but no one stays, which I find unfortunate. Despite the (recent?) issues this is still my favourite place to find out and discuss things photographic and I hope more people will join (or come back) with the new update.

 

[halfaman]

I don't understand why the soap box or the lounge exist. This is a forum dedicated to analog photography discussion, this is not a bar or a pub.

 

[AgX]

I longtime even did not know about the existence of the soap-box..
But the Lounge gives the opportunity to learn about other interests of fellow members, it can be a means to strengthen bonds.

 

[guangong]

I don't understand why the soap box or the lounge exist. This is a forum dedicated to analog photography discussion, this is not a bar or a pub.

If it were more like a bar, there would be more congeniality and openness of friendly discussion.
There are several folks that I know we are in complete disagreement politically, but whose remarks on other topics I often appreciate. It would be a pleasure to sit around a table and have a free wheeling discussion with them along with adult beverages. Thin skinned people are no fun. I fear that many on APUG would like to limit discussion to which camera, film size, and developer they are convinced is best, and any discussion of the world about them is a waste of time.

 

[Helge]

If it were more like a bar, there would be more congeniality and openness of friendly discussion.
There are several folks that I know we are in complete disagreement politically, but whose remarks on other topics I often appreciate. It would be a pleasure to sit around a table and have a free wheeling discussion with them along with adult beverages. Thin skinned people are no fun. I fear that many on APUG would like to limit discussion to which camera, film size, and developer they are convinced is best, and any discussion of the world about them is a waste of time.

But that kind of congeniality, looseness and trust is probably impossible to achieve via short form text.
It’s the reason why we still crave face to face contact.