Tilt-Shift MF???

Ambar · Dec 15, 2011

Here's the deal.. I've been using a YashicaFlex that was lent out to me for a while now and I just (a couple of hours ago) returned it to it's true owner. It actually is very sad.. I grew fond of that little puppy but I couldn't keep her any longer.

So I'm in the market the actually purchase my first MF camera.
But I've also been working (editing video) with some images that were filmed using a tilt shift and this has been enticing me ever more everyday!

The Question: Is there a tilt-shift MF system out there?
I know of the hasselblad HTS1.5 (I think that's the name). But does this work with the a 500c/m system? Are there any other options out there or am I gonna have to make the jump straight 4x5 view camera?

postalman · Dec 15, 2011

Fuji GX680 series sounds like what you want (I hope you like a workout - the thing is big).

I don't know enough to give any other ideas.

tomalophicon · Dec 15, 2011

There are loads of medium format cameras with movements.
Search for medium format view cameras.
The Rollei SL66 has tilt feature on the lens.
You can get Tilt lenses for most MF SLRs.

rawhead · Dec 15, 2011

There's a Hartblei 45mm f3.5 Tilt Shift lens for P6 mount and, via adapters, all 645 systems. Available on Ebay.
There's a Schneider-Kreuznach PCS Super-Angulon 55mm f4.5 tilt-shift lens for 645 systems, but are very rare.
There's the Zoerk Multi Focus System, which can be combined with their Pro Shift adapters that allows tilt shifting on medium format using lenses designed for LF (http://www.zoerk.com/pages/p_mfs.htm)
Hasselblad FlexBody and ArcBody are straightforward tilt shift setups for the V system.
Perhaps one of the most interesting options out there is the Hartblei Cams; you actually use tilt-shift lenses designed for 135 format with medium format backs (including digital backs): http://hartblei.de/en/hartbleicam1.htm

The last one is the one I'd get if I had the money I don't right now, so I content myself with my Hartblei 45/3.5 and Rollei SL66.

Rudeofus · Dec 15, 2011

T&S is very often used with wide angle lenses, and a T&S wide angle lens is essentially a super wide angle lens for a larger format. At the same time, the most common MF camera types are not ideal for T&S: that's obvious for view finder cameras, range finder cameras and TLRs, but even SLR cameras make super wide angle lens design very difficult (and costly). Of course there are T&S lenses for MF and small format, but they are quite limited and considered toys by many who used them. I was quite disappointed by the 75mm shift lens for Mamiya RZ when I tried it.

Large format cameras are the ideal camera type for T&S: they don't need a mirror between lens and film plane, so it's moderately easy (and cheap) to make a wide angle lens with large image circle for them, and you have a large ground glass to check and fine tune the camera and lens movements.

tomalophicon · Dec 15, 2011

Check out also the Mamiya super 23 press camera. It has rangefinder and tilt shift ability with a bellows at the camera's back. I got mine for $120 with a 90mm lens.

2F/2F · Dec 15, 2011

tomalophicon said:
Check out also the Mamiya super 23 press camera. It has rangefinder and tilt shift ability with a bellows at the camera's back. I got mine for $120 with a 90mm lens.

Bad choice, IMO. You cannot effectively use the movements with your 90 unless you are doing close-up shots. Only the retractable 100mm f/3.5 can be used with the rear movements. And that is a normal lens (about equivalent to a 43mm on small format). In short, the Super 23's movements are near useless for many (if not most) people's purposes.

If you want tilt/shift most of the time, and don't mind a honking-big camera, I'd suggest the Fuji GX680. It's a medium format 6x8 SLR with some movements.

tomalophicon · Dec 15, 2011

2F/2F said:
Bad choice, IMO. You cannot effectively use the movements with your 90 unless you are doing close-up shots. Only the retractable 100mm f/3.5 can be used with the rear movements. And that is a normal lens (about equivalent to a 43mm on small format). In short, the Super 23's movements are near useless for many (if not most) people's purposes.

If you want tilt/shift most of the time, and don't mind a honking-big camera, I'd suggest the Fuji GX680. It's a medium format 6x8 SLR with some movements.

\

That's wrong. The 90 is also retractable.

2F/2F · Dec 15, 2011

tomalophicon said:
\

That's wrong. The 90 is also retractable.

My mistake. I just confirmed that with my Mamiya Systems Handbook. Not all of them are (none I have had). So that means you get something like a 40mm on small format. The point about them being very limited is still true.

sandholm · Dec 15, 2011

Hasselblad Flexbody Camera, not cheep in any way but what a system it is. It should be more seen as a view-camera then a MF camera, but were you use MF lenses and film back.

johnielvis · Dec 15, 2011

well...if you want to do it with the most flexibility, you get a 2x3 view camera or a rollfilm back for 4x5 or 3x4

I suggest a speed graphic 3x4 WITH a roll film adapter---I have such a combo and it is the best solution I have found

MF converter lenses are limited and VERY EXPENSIVE

the speed graphic with rollfilm provides much versatility--you can even mount your favorite MF lenses to it and use those with the focal plane shutter.

this is the cheapest alternative.

right now I have the parts to mount my hasselblad lenses to the crown graphic---put that with a roll film holder and BAM got a tilt shift macro medium format camera for VERY cheap and VERY versatile.

cowanw · Dec 15, 2011

I use the Contax 645 with the Hartblei super rotator.
Does a fine job but no Auto anything.

chassis · Dec 15, 2011

Another suggestion to consider a view (large format) camera with a roll film back. You can probably pick up a 4x5 rail-type large format camera, standard lens, and roll film back for a comparable (or lower) price as a medium format or 35mm format tilt/shift setup.

ic-racer · Dec 15, 2011

Unless you are rolling in cash, a medium format view camera is the most economical camera. Tilt-shift lenses for medium format cameras are some of the most expensive still camera lenses marketed.

If you just want perspective control, this can be done easily during printing if your enlarger has the capacity.

Matthew Rusbarsky · Dec 15, 2011

Graflex 23 with a rollfilm back?

Mainecoonmaniac · Dec 15, 2011

Here's one for a Mamiya RZ. It costs as much as a view camera with a wide angle lens.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/33409-REG/Mamiya_212_303_75mm_f_4_5_Shift_RZ.html

Jon Shiu · Dec 15, 2011

If you are wanting to alter the plane of focus to throw things out of focus, there are ways to do it by mounting the lens in a rubber plumbing coupling, or holding it loose by hand.

Jon

erikg · Dec 15, 2011

Jon Shiu said:
If you are wanting to alter the plane of focus to throw things out of focus, there are ways to do it by mounting the lens in a rubber plumbing coupling, or holding it loose by hand.

Jon

As long as the shutter is elsewhere.

Ambar · Dec 15, 2011

WOW! Thank you all for this wealth of information.. I seems like MF with a tilt shift option is CrAzY expensive.. I've been checking out a few of the option you guy's have pointed out and they seem simply unreasonable! Going for a 2x3 view camera really does seem like the only reasonable option but I was hoping to keep some of the portability afforded by an MF system. I might have to stick to a regular MF for now (with Jon's rubber coupling idea.. That seems fun!). And once I go for a view camera, I'll probably go straight to a 4x5 (or bigger) kind of system.
But if you have any other ideas? I'm all ears!
Once again.. Thank you!!

tomalophicon · Dec 15, 2011

the Rollei SL66 then, or the Fuji GX680.

Sirius Glass · Dec 15, 2011

Look at the Hasselblad FlexBody [uses Hasselblad Zeiss lenses] and Hasselblad ArcBody [uses Rodenstock lenses]

Mainecoonmaniac · Dec 15, 2011

If you're really interested in 6x7 format, you can use a 4x5 camera and use a 6x7 roll back. A 90mm wide angle lens for 4x5 will have some what of a "normal" perspective on 6x7 film. The whole set up probably will be cheaper than a RZ tilt-shift lens.

BrianL · Dec 16, 2011

Bronica ETR series has a t&s lens. Rather scarce but out there. I seem to remember it was sourced from Zeiss.

Jim Jones · Dec 16, 2011

Matthew Rusbarsky said:
Graflex 23 with a rollfilm back?

Yes, indeed. The Graphic 23 or Century models had somewhat inconvenient tilt with the bed dropped, modest shift, and ample rise. They don't have a rotating back for vertical framing. However, they are compact and less expensive than most other outfits with similar capabilities. 6x6, 6x7, and 6x9 roll film backs are available. I've also used sheet film holders with them.

EdSawyer · Dec 16, 2011

the RZ has some good tilt-shift options. No one pays the prices for new RZ gear from B&H, btw.

The 75mm shift can regularly be had on ebay for $500-750, sometimes even less. It has 20mm of shift in any direction built in.

The RZ tilt-shift adapter is usually $500 - 1000, (they vary a lot) on ebay. With that you can use any RZ lens but the only ones that focus to infinity are the short-barrel 75mm and 180mm. The 75 SB can usually be found for $400-600, the 180SB can be found for $180-300 usually, also on ebay. The RZ tilt-shift adapter allows up to 10mm shift in any direction, plus 10 to 12 or so degrees of tilt. It can be hand-held but is slightly unwieldy. There's also a ground-glass back for the RZ which helps when using the T/S stuff, though it's not required.

The upside of all of the above vs. a 2x3 or 4x5 solution is the above is more portable for the most part, can be hand-held, and includes all the goodness of the RZ system (TTL metering, etc.).

That said, a 4x5 is much more flexible in terms of range of tilts and shifts, and probably not any more expensive (though not really a lot cheaper).

-Ed

Tilt-Shift MF???

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