Thinking of getting into 4x5

[Todd Barlow]

I have been thinking for a while about making the next step and getting into 4x5, I currently use 35mm and 6x6.

I have an opportunity to buy a Techihara Hope (black bellows, chrome hardware, not sure of the wood) complete with a Schneider-Kreuznach 210mm f 5.6 Symmar-S. I beleive that it was originally sold by Zone VI. It also comes with a bag, dark cloth, 4 film holders, a meter, Polaroid back and some spare lens boards. $700 Canadian.

By inspection it appears to have been very gentley used and I would estimate it was originally bought about ~15 to 20 years ago.

My questions:
1) Would this kit be a good start? I shoot mostly landscapes and sections of old farm buildings.
2) It has 12" of bellows extention - what are my lens limitations?
3) The 210mm Schneider - good lens?
4) Comments on the body, things to look for before buying
5) Overall value?
6) Any other insight or comments are welcome.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Todd

 

[ggriffi]

Todd,

Can't speak to a lot of the questions you have except the Schneider lens. I have one and really like it. I know that there are better lens but this one suits me very much. The only other thing I can add is "come on in, the water's fine"

g

 

[Photo Engineer]

I cannot comment on all of the things you list except generally. They look good.

The lens is a bit long for my taste. I don't use a 210 for normal exposures. OTOH, it is a good lens.

PE

 

[mjs]

Please take all my comments with a grain of salt, remembering that I haven't seen the stuff and could be off base by miles! On the other hand, the Tachihara is a nice lightweight camera which should have sufficient movements for your stated purposes. The lens, if in good condition and operating properly, is considered to be a good lens. Things to look for on the camera:

Are the bellows light-tight?
Is any of the wood cracked or broken? Look particularly carefully where the tripod mount is underneath the camera.
Are all of the knobs present and intact?
Does it focus smoothly?
Do the movements lock down solidly?

Regarding the lens:
Are there scratches or marks on either the front or rear elements?
Does the shutter operate smoothly?
Do the aperture blades open and close crisply and without hesitation or asymmetry?
Are there any dents, as though it has been dropped?

If all of the items are clean, this is a pretty decent deal. Recent E-bay prices for good condition items such as this would add up to US$750 or so for the camera and lens, plus more for the other bits (can't tell without knowing what kind of meter it is.) Age isn't nearly as important as condition in large format: cameras and lenses a century old are not uncommon and stuff from the 50's and 60's is considered pretty modern. This stuff isn't like digital gear: large format equipment doesn't really have an expiration date and doesn't go obsolete easily. Good luck!

mjs

 

[dphphoto]

The wood on the camera is probably cherry. Check the lens for "schneideritis," flecks of paint from the barrel that have flaked off and gotton onto the inside lens surfaces (usually only a cosmetic problem unless severe.)
You'll probably want/need more holders. What meter? Also, do you already have a tripod? 12" bellows are ok unless you want a lens longer than 210mm. You could always get up to about a 400mm tele.
Sounds like a good deal. Dean

 

[Donald Miller]

I have been thinking for a while about making the next step and getting into 4x5, I currently use 35mm and 6x6.

I have an opportunity to buy a Techihara Hope (black bellows, chrome hardware, not sure of the wood) complete with a Schneider-Kreuznach 210mm f 5.6 Symmar-S. I beleive that it was originally sold by Zone VI. It also comes with a bag, dark cloth, 4 film holders, a meter, Polaroid back and some spare lens boards. $700 Canadian.

By inspection it appears to have been very gentley used and I would estimate it was originally bought about ~15 to 20 years ago.

My questions:
1) Would this kit be a good start? I shoot mostly landscapes and sections of old farm buildings.
2) It has 12" of bellows extention - what are my lens limitations?
3) The 210mm Schneider - good lens?
4) Comments on the body, things to look for before buying
5) Overall value?
6) Any other insight or comments are welcome.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Todd

The immediate limitation is the bellows extension. You will not be able to use anything much longer then the 210 mm if you want to do any closeup exposures. (Perhaps 240mm but that is about it).

The 210 Schneider (I assume Symmar S) is a good lens in my experience.

I would probably recommend seeing if you can pick up a used 4X5 Zone VI on ebay...they have been about the price that you mention. Mine has 18 inches of bellows extension and that helps (I shoot a 305 as my longest lens with that camera). However with the accompanying parts your camera may be priced just a tad high.

 

[Monophoto]

Todd -

In Richard Ritter's article on the history of the Zone VI camera, he mentioned that the Tachihara was the camera sold by Zone VI when the company first came into existence in the early 1970's, but in 1980 Picker switched over to Wista. That means that the camera you are looking at had to have been manufactured prior to 1980 - so it's a bit older than you were thinking. That's not a major problem - wooden cameras can easily last 100 years or more. If a quick inspection shows that there are no obvious signs of major damage, and everything appears to be tight, then it should be OK.

As you know, there are boxers, and there are briefs, and your preference is your business and no one else's. Some people will tell you that your first lens should be 135mm - or 150mm - or whatever. Ignore them and do what you want to do.

When I bought my Zone VI, I opted for a 210mm lens. For landscapes and modest still life applications, that's a perfectly fine lens. I later added a 90mm. I don't expect to need any other lens for that camera.

There are two potential limitations in the 12" bellows. Lenses longer than 300mm will require more bellows to focus at infinity. Shorter lenses will focus at infinity, but may require more bellows to focus closer. I suspect that you will find that the 210mm lens will be fine for distance applications, but it's possible that may encounter situations with those old barns where you won't have enough bellows to frame down to small details. Like any format, over time you will learn the limitations of your kit and that will help you decide which, if any, additional lenses you might want to add.

Which Polaroid back comes with the kit? If its the 500 or 550, it's worthless - Polaroid no longer makes film in that format. The 405 is marginal - type 665 pos/neg material has also been discontinued, so that holder would only be useful for test exposures. The other choice is the 545 - and so far, Polaroid continues to support that format.

Which meter is in the package? Many (perhaps most) of the meters of the vintage of this camera used mercury batteries that are no longer available. There are substitutes, but they are a PITA.

Four holders is a start. For 4x5 you probably want at least 10, but they are readily available and fairly inexpensive. Check them to make sure they look reasonably clean, and if you choose to buy, do a test to make sure they don't leak. There's nothing inherently wrong with old holders - but you may need to renew the hinge tape.

The price is probably reasonable if everything is clean and in working order -and probably even if the meter is marginal.

 

[vet173]

Whatever outfit you end up with, the 210 would be the best single lens in my opinion. I own a buttload of lenses now but only had an 8 1/2 in ektar comercial for my first five years. When limited to only one lens you really are forced to learn to see. That has payed off many dividends since then.

 

[eddym]

The Schneider 210 Symmar S is a great lens, as are all the Symmar S series. But when I bought my first 4x5 many years ago, I bought a 210 and a 90 Super Angulon. After using them, I felt that the 210 was too long for a normal, too short for a long lens. And the gap between 90 and 210 was too great. I eventually became a dealer for Schneider lenses and Linhof cameras, and tested a lot of lenses. What I use now with my Technika is a 75mm Super Angulon, 120mm Super Angulon, 180 Symmar S, and 270 Apo Artar. The 120 is a great lens for landscapes, being a short normal or slight wide angle on 4x5.
Of course, everyone's taste in focal lengths is different, but here are my 2 cents.
An good alternative combination might be 90/150/240.
Of course, that should not stop you from buying the camera. You can always swap lenses later, or you might find that the 210 suits your taste perfectly.
--Eddy

 

[BBarlow690]

Cousin!

Lenses are like religion. Here's my sermon. The 210 is a great length for 4x5 - I use mine for 95% of my images, and, like vet173 says, it sharpens your vision to learn one lens. The 210 is a fabulous portrait length that keeps you close enough to the subject to maintain the intimacy that you want.

I have a Zone VI Wista, similar to the Tachihara. I built 1,000 of the newer Zone VIs. My Wista is just fine, 12" of extension is long enough for me.

Get it and get started. If you grow out of it and want more extension or more something later, you'll easily justify it then, because you will have fallen in love with LF. That's how I ended up with an 8x10...

 

[r-brian]

I bought a Hope Tachihara with a like-new 150 Caltar and 5 holders a year ago for $625 American and thought I got a great deal. I feel $700 Canadian is a steal, if everything is in good shape. As everyone else commented, the lens is a quality lens, should be not problems. If the shutter is sticking, send to Flutot's for a $45 CLAC. As far as focal lengths, that depends on what you are shooting now, 210mm is like a 70mm in 35mm. Personally, I'm a wide angel shooter. I have a Ilex 65mm I use on mine on a flat lens board, not a lot of room for movements but I get along just fine.

Take the plunge, the outfit is well worth the money.