Thinking of a Fuji 645 camera

msbarnes · Nov 28, 2011

I'm interested in a 645 camera with a wide-angle lens; more specifically I'm interested the the Fuji GA645W, GS645S, or GA645. My top priorities is a camera that is portable, compact, durable, and inexpensive. I'm also considering a Mamiya 645 or Pentax 645 cameras as those seem to have better optics at a similar price but at the expense of portability and compactness.

For the Fuji rangefinders:
1) How is the bokeh? I don't care so much for sharpness but I do care about bokeh. I don't like very harsh bokeh. From browsing through flickr, it seems that the Mamiya has the best bokeh, but that also depends on the subject and photographer..
2) How is the handling? I prefer landscape orientation. Do you users find the native vertical orientation annoying? This is probably more of a personal question.
3) How is the shutter life? I've heard that the 6x7/6x9 rangefinder shutter life is low (500 rolls?), is this the same for 645 rangefinders? Is there anyone in the US that services them? Essex?
4) How is the durability? I've heard that these cameras are very plasticy.
5) How is the auto-focus? I don't care for autofocus, but it seems that it's the better option if I want a 45mm because the GS645W is scalepfocus and with a slower lens.
6) How is the rangefinder/viewfinder? Is it decent? I have some 120 folders (S. Ikonta III and S. Isolette) and those, to me, are pretty good or atleast better than what I expected. Would I expect the Fuji RF's to be comparable? I've heard that they aren't that great.
7) Is the shutter loud?
8) Anything else I should know?

I'm interested in the Fuji's because of their size/portability and rangefinder focusing; but my concerns are in the optics (bokeh) and durability.

Oren Grad · Nov 28, 2011

msbarnes said:
For the Fuji rangefinders:
1) How is the bokeh? I don't care so much for sharpness but I do care about bokeh. I don't like very harsh bokeh. From browsing through flickr, it seems that the Mamiya has the best bokeh, but that also depends on the subject and photographer..

I used to intensely dislike the Fuji RF bokeh. I've mellowed a bit and after many years picked up another GS645S which I do use occasionally, but on the whole I still don't terribly care for the way they draw. They don't usually serve up the sort of harsh frizz that most people think of as the definition of "bad bokeh", but there's a distinctive look to distant OOF backgrounds that I find very unpleasant sometimes. OTOH, nearby OOF backgrounds are often rendered in a beautifully unobtrusive way. As always, this is such a subjective thing that you really need to judge for yourself.

msbarnes said:
2) How is the handling? I prefer landscape orientation. Do you users find the native vertical orientation annoying? This is probably more of a personal question.

I find the GS645S a bit awkward for horizontal use. Not unusable, mind you, but enough of a nuisance that I'm always conscious of wrestling with the camera. I've never used one of the autofocus GA series - perhaps those are less awkward.

msbarnes said:
3) How is the shutter life? I've heard that the 6x7/6x9 rangefinder shutter life is low (500 rolls?), is this the same for 645 rangefinders?

500 on the counter is the recommended service interval, NOT the design lifetime of the shutter.

msbarnes said:
Is there anyone in the US that services them? Essex?

You can check with the Fuji service center in the US to see whether they'll still accept any of them. Beyond that, many independent repair centers that work on mechanically-governed cameras will accept the manual-focus ones. I don't know about the AF models.

msbarnes said:
4) How is the durability? I've heard that these cameras are very plasticy.

The manual-focus ones are indeed very plasticky, but with care will hold up well to steady use. Weak spots for the GS645 folder include the bellows and the folding mechanism. A weak spot for the GS645S is the lens mount, which is fairly fragile - hence the "crash bar". A good whack to the front of a GS645S can do a lot of damage. Again, I don't know about the AF models.

msbarnes said:
5) How is the auto-focus? I don't care for autofocus, but it seems that it's the better option if I want a 45mm because the GS645W is scalepfocus and with a slower lens.

As noted, I've never used any of the AF models. You might look up Dante Stella's review of the GA645.

msbarnes said:
6) How is the rangefinder/viewfinder? Is it decent? I have some 120 folders (S. Ikonta III and S. Isolette) and those, to me, are pretty good or atleast better than what I expected. Would I expect the Fuji RF's to be comparable? I've heard that they aren't that great.

It's fine. The frame lines move to correct for both parallax and field size - I much prefer that to the fixed-size framelines in the Mamiya 6 and 7, and to the squinty little finder without any framelines in my Super Ikonta B.

msbarnes said:
7) Is the shutter loud?

Yes, at least in the manual-focus ones. Dunno about the AF models. If you want a quiet shutter, try the GF670/Bessa III, which is astounding in that respect. The Mamiya 6 and 7 shutters are pretty quiet too.

msbarnes said:
8) Anything else I should know?

Dunno, does the above raise any other questions?

mcgrattan · Nov 28, 2011

msbarnes said:
1) How is the bokeh? I don't care so much for sharpness but I do care about bokeh. I don't like very harsh bokeh. From browsing through flickr, it seems that the Mamiya has the best bokeh, but that also depends on the subject and photographer..
2) How is the handling? I prefer landscape orientation. Do you users find the native vertical orientation annoying? This is probably more of a personal question.
3) How is the shutter life? I've heard that the 6x7/6x9 rangefinder shutter life is low (500 rolls?), is this the same for 645 rangefinders? Is there anyone in the US that services them? Essex?
4) How is the durability? I've heard that these cameras are very plasticy.
5) How is the auto-focus? I don't care for autofocus, but it seems that it's the better option if I want a 45mm because the GS645W is scalepfocus and with a slower lens.
6) How is the rangefinder/viewfinder? Is it decent? I have some 120 folders (S. Ikonta III and S. Isolette) and those, to me, are pretty good or atleast better than what I expected. Would I expect the Fuji RF's to be comparable? I've heard that they aren't that great.
7) Is the shutter loud?
8) Anything else I should know?

I have a GS645S, so the following is based on that:
1) It's not beautiful, I have to admit. But it's OK. I'm probably not as sensitive to it as some people, but it's not as lovely as my Rolleiflex, definitely.
2) Personally, I like portrait orientation, and even in 35mm I probably shoot more than half of my frames with vertical orientation. But I don't remember it being particularly problematic shooting landscape.
3) My shutter has been fine.
4) I broke part of the plastic lens surround on mine when I caught the bumper on something, and the bumper and cover are now loose. So yeah, it's not the most robust. The lens, however, is still fine, so it's more a cosmetic problem.
5) N/A/
6) On mine the viewfinder is excellent. Big, bright, and parallax corrected. The rangefinder patch isn't great though. It's usable, but faint compared to my 35mm rangefinders.
7) Yes, very loud for a leaf shutter. Certainly much louder than my Super Ikonta, and my Rollei [which are the two other MF leaf-shutter cameras I have].
8) I find the sharpness and image quality extremely high. The GS645S is a near-perfect travel camera, for me. Shame it's not a bit more robust, and didn't have a quieter shutter.

munz6869 · Nov 28, 2011

I have a GA645zi
1. Agree with above comments - prefer Rolleiflex
2. I don't mind the portrait orientation, but use landscape probably just as much - I actually find it easier to compose in landscape
3. No problems with shutter ever
4. After dropping it on the floor of a Land Rover in Iceland, there is now a hairline crack in the back plastic film door - otherwise mine still looks minty, even after travels...
5. Hate the autofocus - but it does mean I have got some shots I never would have with a ponderous camera like the Rolleiflex or LF - autofocus still seems like cheating to me, and this simple implementation takes getting used to...
6. Viewfinder is great and clear.
7. Not at all - I've left the "beep" on it's so quiet - the film wind is also really quiet - yes, it's louder than a Rollei, but most things are - it's not as loud as my Mamiya or Fuji 6x8 - those things would wake a hibernating bear...
8. Great quick MF travel camera - still like my Rolleiflex better, but probably made more photos with it on my last trip because it does everything... The champagne colour of the zi is delightfully gaudy and bizarre.

Marc!

Enrico Scotece · Nov 28, 2011

I borrowed a 645 Fuji, straight to question 7 - earmuffs needed.

hnrh2 · Nov 28, 2011

This is from my experience with 645 Gazi.

1) How is the bokeh? I don't care so much for sharpness but I do care about bokeh. I don't like very harsh bokeh. From browsing through flickr, it seems that the Mamiya has the best bokeh, but that also depends on the subject and photographer..

The Mamiya is very nice for close focus wide open photo. I feel the fuji is better for not so close focus f8. In this category of photography, the bokeh is nice.

2) How is the handling? I prefer landscape orientation. Do you users find the native vertical orientation annoying? This is probably more of a personal question.

Handling of Gazi is nice. Landscape is no big problem.

4) How is the durability? I've heard that these cameras are very plasticy.

Look plastic but overall quality of Gazi is good. It feels well in hand.

5) How is the auto-focus? I don't care for autofocus, but it seems that it's the better option if I want a 45mm because the GS645W is scalepfocus and with a slower lens.

Tha Gazi autofocus is good enough. I like it. The zoom is pointless compared to a simple 60mm in my opinion but this is not the subject of the thread.

6) How is the rangefinder/viewfinder? Is it decent? I have some 120 folders (S. Ikonta III and S. Isolette) and those, to me, are pretty good or atleast better than what I expected. Would I expect the Fuji RF's to be comparable? I've heard that they aren't that great.

Viewfinder is good. Information display is well thought and the viewfinder itself is fairly clear.

7) Is the shutter loud?

Not too much and film advance neither.

8) Anything else I should know?
close focus is 1m. Pictures are good. Auto exposure too.

Richard S. (rich815) · Nov 28, 2011

Enrico Scotece said:
I borrowed a 645 Fuji, straight to question 7 - earmuffs needed.

I disagree. I have the GA645 and the Zi and the shutters are quiet, it's the auto advance that buzzes though only noticeable in a quiet room not on the street typically. Now the GW690III? TH-WUNK!!!

Thingy · Nov 28, 2011

I have a Mamiya 645 Pro TL with a shutter that is a bit of a shock after using large format lenses with leaf shutters By contrast my Mamiya 7 leaf shuttered lens is so quiet, with no discernable camera shake, I was convenced originally that it wasn't firing. This very fact makes it perfect for those times when one needs to do unobtrusive documentary work (admittedly rare for me these days).

msbarnes · Nov 28, 2011

Thank you all for your replys! This camera seems to be a great camera, so long as you can deal with it's limitations.

Tony-S · Nov 28, 2011

I had one but now have the Bronica RF645 and am much happier with it. Quite a bit more expensive, though.

keithwms · Nov 28, 2011

Former owner of a GA645W and 645Zi here. Loved them both. I have loved pretty much all of the Fujis my hands have touched. I wound up getting a pair of mamiya 6es for the sake of interchangeable lenses and the square format, but I still miss the Fujis from time to time.

1) How is the bokeh? I don't care so much for sharpness but I do care about bokeh. I don't like very harsh bokeh. From browsing through flickr, it seems that the Mamiya has the best bokeh, but that also depends on the subject and photographer..

It's basically moot in my way of thinking; these cameras have rather contrasty EBC lenses that you wouldnt want for standard portraiture anyway. Their strong suit is scenic (street, landscape etc), not portraiture. The bokeh isn't awful, but I would just say that the contrast and the bokeh and the relative slowness of the lenses combine to make something that I didn't care to use for headshots. For most other subjects the bokeh is hardly noticeable.

2) How is the handling? I prefer landscape orientation. Do you users find the native vertical orientation annoying? This is probably more of a personal question.

I *love* the orientation in the Fujis! I really liked it. I don't understand why all the other 645s have horizontal orientation- everybody tells me the format was invented for wedding stuff and that's why it's usually landscape (to get groups of people). Maybe it's just me but I find vertical format much more useful for scenic stuff and most walk-around photography.

3) How is the shutter life? I've heard that the 6x7/6x9 rangefinder shutter life is low (500 rolls?), is this the same for 645 rangefinders? Is there anyone in the US that services them? Essex?

Hmm I didn't know it was that low. I haven't heard of any shutter issues.

4) How is the durability? I've heard that these cameras are very plasticy.

They might feel plasticky but they are very solid. Very well made.

5) How is the auto-focus? I don't care for autofocus, but it seems that it's the better option if I want a 45mm because the GS645W is scalepfocus and with a slower lens.

The AF is noisy in the GA645Zi. It was a bit humorous, I mean you really hear it. But on the other hand it worked very well. I even used it for closeup sports shots.

6) How is the rangefinder/viewfinder? Is it decent? I have some 120 folders (S. Ikonta III and S. Isolette) and those, to me, are pretty good or atleast better than what I expected. Would I expect the Fuji RF's to be comparable? I've heard that they aren't that great.

The VFs are fine. Nothing spectacular but totally fine.

7) Is the shutter loud?

I don't remember any shutter noise. I do remember AF noise

8) Anything else I should know?

As I implied, I think these cameras have a great place in scenic / travel/ documentary / landscape photography. The contrast lends to the feeling of great sharpness and wonderful detail. these cameras produce gorgeous slides, by the way. Would I use 'em for portraiture with creamy backgrounds? Nah. But doesn't the world have enough of those shots??!

Overall, the Fujis are really fun to use. I would consider getting one. I guess I found the 645W the most useful overall. The Zi was fun but the zoom range isn't large. But in any case these are really fun cameras and, in my experience, super reliable. Buy two!

Curt · Nov 30, 2011

munz6869 said:
I have a GA645zi
1. Agree with above comments - prefer Rolleiflex
2. I don't mind the portrait orientation, but use landscape probably just as much - I actually find it easier to compose in landscape
3. No problems with shutter ever
4. After dropping it on the floor of a Land Rover in Iceland, there is now a hairline crack in the back plastic film door - otherwise mine still looks minty, even after travels...
5. Hate the autofocus - but it does mean I have got some shots I never would have with a ponderous camera like the Rolleiflex or LF - autofocus still seems like cheating to me, and this simple implementation takes getting used to...
6. Viewfinder is great and clear.
7. Not at all - I've left the "beep" on it's so quiet - the film wind is also really quiet - yes, it's louder than a Rollei, but most things are - it's not as loud as my Mamiya or Fuji 6x8 - those things would wake a hibernating bear...
8. Great quick MF travel camera - still like my Rolleiflex better, but probably made more photos with it on my last trip because it does everything... The champagne colour of the zi is delightfully gaudy and bizarre.

Marc!

I was looking at the GA645zi. Which Rolleiflex do you prefer, I'm not familiar with the Rollei line of camera other than the 66 SL.

munz6869 · Nov 30, 2011

In July, I travelled around Iceland, The Netherlands & Switzerland, and dragged along a 4x5" kit, GA645zi & a Rolleiflex EV MX (the mid 50's one with the Tessar f/3.5 lens) - I used the 4x5" as much as I ever do, but I found, given the choice between two MF cameras - I used the Fuji when I knew I wouldn't have time to ponder photos, and when I was feeling lazy. It's a fine camera, but for urban travel photography, and simply feeling like I am crafting the picture, rather than the electronics, I still love the Rolleiflex more, and as a waist level camera, people and animals never seem intimidated by it...! The 6x6 negs give me more printing scope later on too.
All that said, I am thinking about taking a 6x8cm rangefinder next time (crazy!!)

Marc!

emjo · Nov 30, 2011

rich815 said:
I disagree. I have the GA645 and the Zi and the shutters are quiet, it's the auto advance that buzzes though only noticeable in a quiet room not on the street typically. Now the GW690III? TH-WUNK!!!

I bought a GW690II and was almost afraid of firing it - based on anecdotal evidence from the net. But I was pleasantly surprised, not much sound at all. The counter does count so it probably makes as much noise as it should. Ok, it is not just a whisper as with the GA645Zi but my Mamiya 645 is louder.

CamHK · Feb 15, 2012

In case you're interested I just listed a GA645 in excellent condition on the classifieds. Comes with a bunch of extras. Very low shutter count (400). Please PM me if you are interested.

tnabbott · Feb 17, 2012

I have a 645GA. Image quality is great in my opinion; it is very portable, and exceedingly automatic. If these things are important, then it would be a nice fit for you. It is probably one of the louder medium format cameras you can find, but not on the level of a Pentax 67 or similarly loud body. Basically, it's a great travel medium format camera in my view.

Johnkpap · Feb 18, 2012

I have a much loved Fuji GS645S With a crash bar, I have taken this camera to the USA, it traveled from NY to LA, takes Very Sharp images, Put in some nice slide film and WOW !!! they are nice. I also took it to India and back no problems....Every image is sharp this camera is one of the most reliable one I have Ever owned. The Light Meter battery has been changed once or twice , that is all I have ever had to do.

Cons:- You have one lens 60mm wide, the light meter does not meter through the lens, you need to allow for it when you use a filter.

I always take good care of my cameras, I have not managed to damage, the lens mount or any thing else.

The GS645S is a very good camera it is fully manual, does not need batterys to work, I have no problem recomending one.

Johnkpap
Australia

mathomas · Feb 21, 2012

I just posted a pretty complete overview of my GA645Zi on YouTube. Unfortunately, I wasn't smart enough to fire the shutter in the video. The camera is noisy, IMO (autofocus noise, zoom noise, autowind noise), but that is the cost of all that automation. It's a very convenient and relatively compact camera, IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_pybwbc0tQ

Thinking of a Fuji 645 camera

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