The presentation adventure

[Papa Tango]

Well, the adventure has begun. I have managed to pick up a Logan 700-S mat cutter and a Bogen 560 press for under $350, including the cost of building a new bench to begin doing my own mounting. The next step is to acquire frame stock that I can cut down and assemble out in my other money consuming hobby area...

My thoughts are to produce a number of limited edition matted and bagged prints for placement in our local tourist traps, errrr, I mean visitor arts & craft stores. The framed variety can go where I have had offers to place them, such as local restaurants, banks, and community centers. Those can be bought, or a bagged print sold in its stead. This is quite exciting, although there is a steep learning curve for both the process and the public relations/sale component. The most difficult part I am discovering is pricing for different venues. Is anyone else out there cutting and assembling their own frames?

 

[Donald Miller]

Well, the adventure has begun. I have managed to pick up a Logan 700-S mat cutter and a Bogen 560 press for under $350, including the cost of building a new bench to begin doing my own mounting. The next step is to acquire frame stock that I can cut down and assemble out in my other money consuming hobby area...

My thoughts are to produce a number of limited edition matted and bagged prints for placement in our local tourist traps, errrr, I mean visitor arts & craft stores. The framed variety can go where I have had offers to place them, such as local restaurants, banks, and community centers. Those can be bought, or a bagged print sold in its stead. This is quite exciting, although there is a steep learning curve for both the process and the public relations/sale component. The most difficult part I am discovering is pricing for different venues. Is anyone else out there cutting and assembling their own frames?

I used to cut my own frames from lengths of stock. I have since discontinued doing the frame cutting because the metal frames really need to be cut on a frame cutting saw. I found that I could cut wood frames very effectively on a chop saw with a carbide tipped blade. The chop saw can cut aluminum...but it tends to not be as clean as I would want.

A wood frame assembly benefits from a corner vise. Predrill the nail holes prior to driving them.

I do my own mat cutting. Pricing is probably determined as much by your local conditions as anything else. I would think that Keystone would be the absolute minimum on materials. You sound as if you are considering all aspects. Good luck to you.

P.S. as an aside, I spoke with a photographer that has his own gallery here in Az this past week. He said that tourists want color...color...color...he can not give black and white away to his clientelle; many of whom do not live in the area. You may encounter the same thing. Tourists want nice momentos...they are not typical art collectors.

 

[roteague]

I wish you the best Patrick. The only real advice I can give you about pricing is to set one price that you sell your work for, regardless of venue. Of course, that means different prices for matter versus framed versus loose print. But, your prices should be the same for web sales, gallery sales and tourist shop sales, IMO.

Donald, makes a very good point. Tourists want color photos, you may be better off selling in your local arts community.

 

[Shane Knight]

Good luck on your new adventure!

I believe the best advice one can give in your current shoes is not to go too fast. Take little steps on choosing frame styles, mat colors, ets; you will change your mind many times before you are comfortable with a personal style/standard.

Fully understand the choice in markets. If you are going to choose to sell in tourist art and craft shops (cash and carry market), you may NOT want to invest in high end materials as most of those customers only care about image content, size and price; not so much if the item is signed and numbered, acid free, or limited. Also remember, most retailers are only interested in "keystoning" (2x) the price, so you need to keep cost to a mininum and at the same time offer a great product for the money. It is a balancing act. Depending on terms, most local retailers are only interested in consignment which means you will be paid later for your investment if sales are successful. If the retailer is only "buy out right", you may need to offer a "buy back" term, which means you/seller will guarantee to buy all product back in inventory. This term usually keeps the buyer risk to a minium and helps you get into the door.
If you are ready for selling art work, one of the most important and biggest goals is the retailor to say "YES!", when "NO" is the easiest answer.

If you are interested in a higher market, well, thats a different story and a different a reply.

Hope this helps for now.

Shan Knight
www.shaneknight.com

 

[Papa Tango]

Thanks all, please keep any suggestions or comments coming. I don't believe in reinventing the wheel, just finding the right size and tread pattern for the vehicle and use...

I may have been a little less than charitable when I said "tourist trap". We have a few art/craft venues, as well as developing a regional cultural heritage resource center. A great deal of our "spending" leisure visitors are here for the history and and scenery, and request views of things that are to be found locally, reflecting "Appalachia". Nothing does poor Appalachia any better than BW, especially in the memory of those who can recall JFK's 1960s betterment crusade.... Our current hot demographic and market segment is the 45+ professional, nearing retirement or recently retired. NPR listener, seeking B&B or wilderness cabin experience. I have to follow the visitor metrics closely as the county community & economic development director. We have a lot of new initiatives in terms of higher end craft, furniture, and artwork. Much of this is being blended into our current marketing and branding study/initiative. I suspect much of my local presentation will be shaped by what we do there, and what we change to attract different market segments in the future.

I am seeing the color need. We have a couple photogs in the county doing landscape sort of stuff, and not to be unkind, but mostly grab and stock sort of stuff. Started breaking with the mono-only rule and put a stock of Provia 100F in the freezer, along with getting a 645 back for the MF. The psychic in me sees a Jobo CPP in the future... I am simply hoping that Ilfordchrome does not disappear off the supply horizon in the next couple years...

 

[davetravis]

I am simply hoping that Ilfordchrome does not disappear off the supply horizon in the next couple years...

I agree with single pricing for all venues. It's an ethical thing. Not fair for one customer to pay more for the same presentation, but just a different location.
I'm not too worried about Ilfochromes at this point, they were bought by a Japan company and seem to be supplying all the pipelines.
I encourage to try some Ciba, and email me with any concerns you have.
I keep a 3 year supply in stock, just in case things get dicey.
Good luck, and enjoy your new business!
Long live Ciba!!!

 

[Papa Tango]

I'm not too worried about Ilfochromes at this point, they were bought by a Japan company and seem to be supplying all the pipelines.
I encourage to try some Ciba, and email me with any concerns you have.
I keep a 3 year supply in stock, just in case things get dicey.
Long live Ciba!!!

Thanks Dave! This is an opportunity to bring nearly 40 years of back burner thinking to fruition, and my photography full circle. Even if sales never move past a couple a month, the goal will have been met.

I am confused somewhat you your last statement. When I referred to "Ilfochorme", my meaning was the continuation of the old Cibachrome line. I was introduced to that in the late 70s, and all of my 35mm transparencies were printed on the 8x10 stock. I still feel that there is no better medium to print transparencies on, or more available to the amateur darkroom. Is this all the same thing??

 

[roteague]

I am confused somewhat you your last statement. When I referred to "Ilfochorme", my meaning was the continuation of the old Cibachrome line. I was introduced to that in the late 70s, and all of my 35mm transparencies were printed on the 8x10 stock. I still feel that there is no better medium to print transparencies on, or more available to the amateur darkroom. Is this all the same thing??

Most who have done the process for many years, still refer to it as Cibachrome (I often do). Cibachrome has its own magic, which no other process can match - too bad it is just such a pain to do well.

 

[Lopaka]

Some years ago, when Ciba-Geigy transferred the product to Ilford, there was a time line when Ilford could no longer use Ciba's name and changed the product name to Ilfochrome. Long story short - it's the same material. There have been some updates to the chemistry over the years, so current mixing/use instructions are important.

Good luck,
Bob

 

[davetravis]

Patrick,
Ditto what the others said.
Us "oldtimers," (13+ continuous years), still call it Cibachrome.
Rainer Photographic in Seattle carries the chems and papers.
The learning curve is rather long, but without going broke, or pulling your hair out, you should be able to get some pretty good 8x10's or maybe 11x14's from your 35mm trannies. I'm still printing 35mm Kodachromes from 1975...
Email me of your progress, and I'll offer whatever assistance I can.

 

[Papa Tango]

A shot of WD40...

Dave, back in the stone age (late 70s) I was running the Cibachrome process in Beseler drums in the darkroom of the planetarium I worked at. Dead right about the curve, but we were also running E-4 concurrently so the deathwatch was always in force...

Since my foray last year into MF, I have not even handled my 35's. Much less LF too... Considering the cost of a good Jobo processor, running chemistry volumes, doing the E-6 concurrently, the likely course will be a pro lab that does the ciba. Any recommendations? Although I have a real desire to look at a 6x7 tranny (not the drag show variety...) my thought has been to shoot mostly 645 on the RB. That way much of the composition and cropping can be accomplished on the GG, and much more acceptable print matching from the lab. Has anyone found this to be the case?

As for Kodachrome, I am still pissed of over the loss of 25....

 

[davetravis]

Patrick,
I've never used any commercial Ciba lab, so I can't vouch for one.
However, APUG member Bob Carnie might still do some at his lab in Canada.
http://elevatordigital.ca/pages/traditional.htm
Good luck, and keep on shootn!

 

[roteague]

Patrick,
I've never used any commercial Ciba lab, so I can't vouch for one.
However, APUG member Bob Carnie might still do some at his lab in Canada.
http://elevatordigital.ca/pages/traditional.htm
Good luck, and keep on shootn!

I believe that Bob still does, at least he did in May. I'm not sure if he still does them optically though, you will have to PM him and ask.

 

[naturephoto1]

Patrick,

Unfortunately fewer and fewer commercial labs are printing Cibachrome (Ilfochrome) prints. Perhaps Shane can jump in here and make a suggestion. This is part of the reason that Robert Teague and I and many others are now printing our transparencies off of machines like the Lambda, LightJet, or Chromira onto Fuji Crystal Archive photo paper.

Rich

 

[Shane Knight]

If you need a recommendation on a 100% traditional Cibachrome/Ilfochrome, then hands down, Hidden Light LAC. They do a wonderful job and I couldn't ask for better (and I am a extremely picky guy.)
It just two guys and two dark rooms.

Contact:
Hidden Light LLC
Flagstaff, Arizona
928-527-1847
www.hiddenlightllc.com
www.ilfochrome.com
www.cibachrome.com

Good Luck!!
Shane
www.shaneknight.com

 

[Papa Tango]

Well, the Bogen press arrived the other day, and confirmed tales I have heard about fleabay drop & sale operators. Not that the press was not as described (before they shipped it), but they thought it a brilliant idea to pack a 64 pound item into a flimsy box, add about a half gallon of packing peanuts, and wrap about 3 square feet of very thin bubble wrap around the handle, etcetera. Oh, and the part that has a protruding knob on the top plate to adjust pressure? Lets have that on the bottom side of the box because the shipping label was placed on the real bottom. Fortunately, everything can be straightened, and the knob replaced. I let them know that I use more packing materials to ship a 6 pound view camera...