the newbie film developer asks about containers and chemical management...

[Guy Mann]

I've done a bit of darkroom work before but it was in a public lab where all the chemicals were supplied. Now I am planning on performing my own film development at home. This will be a low volume operation...perhaps 4-6 rolls of 35mm and 120mm per month. I think I've done enough research to determine which equipment and chemicals I want to start with but now I'd like to obtain a better understanding of storing and managing my chemical once mixed with convenience, economy and waste/environmental impact reduction in mind. I'll be using a 2x35mm/1x120mm steel tank with the following chemicals.

developer: Kodak HC-110
stop bath: Ilford Ilfostop
fixer: Ilford Rapid Fixer
wash-aid: Heico Perma-Wash
wetting agent: Kodak Photo-Flo

questions:

1. Please clarify which of these 5 chemicals need to be stored in a manner that reduces oxygen exposure once the original container is opened. I'm planning on using the HC-110 in a one-shot manner, preparing developer directly from the syrup as needed so I don't think I will need to store prepared stock solution. I'm unsure if oxygen exposure is an issue w/ the other chemicals.

2. The collapsible style containers, such as Air-Evac, seem like a good solution. Are they so in practice? Are there any more desirable storage solutions for small volume storage?

3. Will I need to transfer the concentrated contents of the original bottles to something like this once opened, just the diluted prepared working solutions or both?

4. Am I overthinking this?

 

[Nick Zentena]

Developer is the main thing to protect but if used one shot even that's less of an issue.

If you're in a grown home then reusing glass bottles [any glass bottle with a resealable lid] works just find for basically anything. Just keep the bottles full. You can't get cheaper then taking a bottle out of the recycle bin. You can't help the enviroment anymore then by reusing the bottles. Glass also doesn't pass oxygen. The downside is weight and breakage. Plus if you have to worry about somebody accidently drinking out of your bottles.

 

[Markok765]

2. Not for what dev you are using! my rodinal is 20 years old! DEFINETLY for paper dev, that stuff ages so quickley

 

[clogz]

As to HC110:http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

 

[juan]

I have a bottle of HC-110 that's at least 5-years old and still good. It's still in the original container. I keep it in my refrigerator, although some folks say not to do that. I don't know about the Ilford stop, but I also keep Kodak Stop in the original container and use one tray per session. The fixer should be fine over the normal life of fixer.
juan

 

[srs5694]

As Nick says, developer is normally the chemical that needs protection from air. HC-110, though, is a highly concentrated liquid developer that's got a good reputation for staying good in long-term storage. I don't use it, but if I did, I doubt if I'd bother transferring it to another container to keep air away from it. (If an actual HC-110 user advises otherwise, though, weigh his or her advice above mine!)

The accordion bottles are probably not worth using. Although the theory seems good, in practice, the ones I've seen are made of HDPE (#2) plastic, which is highly permeable to oxygen. Thus, they're likely to be worse for long-term storage than glass or even PETE (#1) plastic bottles.

FWIW, I store all my chemistry in glass bottles. Mostly these are re-used soda, iced tea, and other drink bottles. IBC Root Beer bottles are great for storing 1 liter of developer, since they're dark glass and come with re-useable caps. Just be sure to thoroughly wash the bottles before you use them for photochemistry.

 

[Jim Jones]

I occasionally use HC-110 diluted directly from the syrupy concentrate. The concentrate in a half-full original container still works fine after 15 or 20 years. My Photo-Flo concentrate in the original container is still good after even more time.

 

[Gerald Koch]

The collapsible style containers, such as Air-Evac, seem like a good solution. Are they so in practice? Are there any more desirable storage solutions for small volume storage?

Whoever came up with the Air-Evac idea should be hung by their thumbs to give them time to contamplate the error of their ways. These containers are impossible to clean after use and the plastic used is permeable to oxygen making them worthless for developer storage.

Soda bottles made of polyethylene terphthalate (PETE, looks for a '1' in the recycle triangle) are good for developer storage. Ordinary polyethylene jugs are good for fixer storage and for other solutions.

HC-110 is best stored undiluted and one-shot working solutions made directly from the concentrate. Get a needleless syringe from the drug store for measuring.

 

[Neal]

Dear Guy,

Avoid the "Air-Evac" bottles. I have found they work just fine in terms of storage life but I find them impractical. My number one complaint is that they don't like to stand up by themselves. If your chemicals are going bad because of age the problem is not that your storage system is bad, it's that you aren't making enough photographs. ;>)

Neal Wydra

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

I agree with Gerald Koch. Air-Evac bottles are poorly designed and are made of inappropriate materials. IMHO they are worse than useless for storing photographic chemicals.

 

[dancqu]

[QUOTES=Guy Mann]
"The collapsible style containers ..."

On impulse I bought one of those. Right away
I could see it was money down the drain. Never
mind the cleaning, the thing was opaque. No
telling if clean or not.

"Are there any more desirable storage solutions
for small volume storage?"

We and a bunch of others would be out of
business if there weren't! Glass Boston Rounds.
For many generations they have been a standard
for keeping chemical solutions. Clear glass bottles.
Easy to see if all is OK inside and if cleaned, clean.
Be sure to have the Polyseal or Polycone caps.
Search from Google for, glass boston rounds .
Very affordable, Many suppliers. Dan

 

[Jim Noel]

Your main concern has to be any developer.
It can be stored in plastic bottles so long as the numeral in the triangle on the bottom is "!". This type of plastic is least permeable to oxygen and CO2.
The best are usually 2 liter soft drink bottles. You can squeeze the excess air out of them and store in a cool dark place and your developer should last a very long time. Mine do.

I nearly forgot, the tops although thicker, are more permeable to Oxygen so it is necessary to put a layer of Saran Wrap under the cap.

 

[kmack]

I prefer to use amber chemical reagent bottles such as the ones here. For me glass is easier to clean. I use marbles to displace the developer and keep as much air out of the bottle as possible.

 

[justpete]

http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_index.asp?cls=14767

These amber Qorpak Boston Rounds are "precleaned by vacuum and ionization" so you don't have to clean them before use. The capacity stated is to the base of the neck, per Qorpak's response to my question on this subject. The narrow-mouth amber bottles come with a green cap fitted with a PTFE liner.

 

[dancqu]

The capacity stated is to the base of the neck,
per Qorpak's response to my question on this subject.

Capacities given are in ounces or equivalent milliliters.
I've found by careful measurement them to be exact
fractions of a liter. That is, full to the cap stop;
one liter, one half, a quarter, etc. Dan

 

[Monophoto]

1. The easiest way to work with HC110 is to mix a stock solution (which I recommend storing in glass bottles), and then dilute it for one-shot use. Yes, it is possible to mix one-shot working solutions from the packaged concentrate, but the concentrate is an extremely viscous syrup, and it's a PITA to work with. A standard 16 bottle of concentrate makes a half-gallon of the standard stock solution; I recommend using two quart bottles for storage - fill one to the very top, and put it on the back of the shelf. Put the rest of the stock solution in the second bottle, and use the contents of that bottle first. I use quart brown glass beer bottles - its a form of recycling and they are fun to empty. By the way, developers are the chemicals that I regularly store in glass - everything else is in plastic.

2. Stop bath is best left as a concentrate and diluted for use. Actually, I tend to dilute it with about twice the recommended amount of water. A typical printing session for me is about 3-4 hours, and I can't exhaust a batch of stop in that period. I know it's foolish to try to save the stuff, but I feel guilty about throwing it out if it's still good. Making it half strength is not a problem - the purpose is to stop development, and it will do that just fine at half strength. Obviously, the stock solution from the manufacturer comes in plastic, and that's just fine for storage.

3. Fixer is a bit more complicated. I mix a batch of working solution for film that I save for reuse. I keep it in plastic, and throw it out when I sense that the clearing time gets noticeably longer than when the stuff is fresh.

For prints, I prefer the Ilford quick fix approach - use film-strength fixer for not more than 60 seconds. I usually can't exhaust a batch in a single printing session, so I will save this fixer for a single reuse. In this case, I save it in a plastic bottle (a recycled Tide detergent bottle - easy to pour in and out).

4. Wash aid - I haven't seen Heico PermaWash in years, and have been using Sprint Fixer Remover instead. I leave the concentrate in the plastic factory bottle, mix at half-strength for one-shot use, and then dump it.

5. Photoflo should be mixed the purest water you can get. In our former home, we had a dehumidifier in the basement, and I would save the water it extracted from the air, and filter it for mixing with photoflo. Our new home doesn't need a dehumidifier, but we do have a reverse osmosis drinking water filtration system that I use as a source. Photoflo goes a long way - it's a good idea to use it at about twice the recommended dilution (ie, half as much concentrate per batch of water). I tend to save this solution for reuse even though I know that economically it's about the cheapest stuff in the darkroom. The purpose of photoflo is to reduce the surface tension of the water used in the final wash for negatives, so by the time you use it, there should be no chemicals left - therefore, there should be no risk of contamination if you save it. Note the term "should" - if you have any concerns about this word use it as a one-shot and dump it after use.

6. Collapsable containers are nice. They are also expensive. I prefer free, and all of my storage containers are recycled from some prior life. Clean them out - let them soak for a week or so with pure water in them. Save your money for film and paper.

7. You didn't ask about print developer - D76, Ilford Multigrade, etc. If you start with a liquid concentrate (Ilford, Sprint, etc), use the factory bottle to store the stock and dilute for use. One shot - dump at the end of the session. If you mix D-76 (or ID-11- the same thing), store the stock solution in glass and dilute for one-shot use.

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

Monophoto, I have embedded some comments in your reply:

1. The easiest way to work with HC110 is to mix a stock solution (which I recommend storing in glass bottles), and then dilute it for one-shot use... Thus canceling out one of the primary attributes of this developer (its very long shelf life as a concentrate).

Go to your local drugstore and get a syringe to measure the HC-110 syrup, then mix the working developer as a one-shot.


2. Stop bath is best left as a concentrate and diluted for use.

True, use a syringe to measure the Acetic acid (or use white vinegar) and mix your stop bath as a one-shot. Plus, Citric Acid is an excellent alternative (See the APUG Chemical Recipes).

3. Fixer is not complicated at all. True mix a batch of working solution for film and save it for (1 or 2 time) reuse. Keep it in plastic, test it with a piece of film leader and throw it out when the clearing time gets noticeably longer than when the stuff is fresh.

For prints, use fresh paper-strength fixer and fix for the manufacturer's recommended time. After use, either dump it or save it in a plastic bottle as the first bath in 2 bath paper fixing system.

4. Wash aid - Heico PermaWash, Kodak HCA and other Fixer Clearing Agents are primarily sodium sulfite or mixtures of sodium sulfite, ammonium sulfite (Permawash) and sodium carbonate (Agfa).

Buy some Sodium Sulfite and Sodium metabisulfite from Artcraft or Photographers Formulary.
Then mix:
Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous)----------25 grams
Sodium Bisulfite--------------------5 grams
Water to make-----------------------1 liter

This makes a excellent buffered Fixer Cearing Agent. Mix enough for a single developing session and use as a one-shot.

5. Photoflo I don't use Photoflo - it has a tendency to gunk up processing equiment - film reels in particular. I use 1 or 2 drops of Edwal LFN mixed in distilled water as a one-shot.

6. As has been previously mentioned in this thread Collapsable containers are an idea that Sounds Nice, But They Don't Work. Bad design - Wrong Materials. To store developers and other oxidation-prone liquids use Glass Boston Rounds.

7. You didn't ask about print developer - D76, Ilford Multigrade, etc. If you start with a liquid concentrate (Ilford, Sprint, etc), use the factory bottle to store the stock and dilute for use. One shot - dump at the end of the session. If you mix D-76 (or ID-11- the same thing), store the stock solution in glass and dilute for one-shot use.

Or use Kodak D23 instead (See the APUG Chemical Recipes Section) and mix as a one-shot just before use from the dry chemicals (Metol and Sodium Sulfite) [/QUOTE]