Straightening?

[Darryl Roberts]

Hi,

I'm new to view camera movements. Should I be able to adjust my camera, the lens has enough coverage, to the right to straighten this building. This picture was taken with my tablet for reference.

Thank you

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Keep front and rear standards parallel to the building, then raise the lens if necessary.

 

[Darryl Roberts]

Keep front and rear standards parallel to the building, then raise the lens if necessary.

Thank you, but I'm on the side corner of the building, is that a factor?

 

[cramej]

Thank you, but I'm on the side corner of the building, is that a factor?

No. Depending on the camera, there are a couple methods of accomplishing front rise.

 

[wiltw]

OP, your camera lens and focal plane were aimed upward, inherently creating 'converging vertical lines'. By aiming your camera LEVEL, you avoid the creating of converging verticals (although horizontals would converge if you are not square to the front of the building).
You use shift (rise) movements of the lens to adjust framing so you capture the front of the building without needing to tilt the camera.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Thank you, but I'm on the side corner of the building, is that a factor?

No. Your only concern here is to keep the vertical lines parallel.

 

[nmp]

You have to keep the film plane (back) parallel to the building vertical. Then move and tilt the front standard as needed to put the building in the frame.

 

[removed account4]

Hi Darryl.. I’m not familiar with your camera.: are there spirit levels on the film back and front standard?
…. After you frame the way you like loosen the back and front and “0” them out do the same for the lens standard... this might take messing with your tripod a little ( and standing on a stool if you are under 5'10" like me ). You probably have grid lines on your ground glass …. when you adjust standards you can see the before / after difference and line things up the way you want .. you can also fine tune the image ( rise fall, splay the roof a little do whatever you want ) to do what you want at that point to adjust the composition …. If you don’t have levels (or the ones on the camera are all dried out ) get a post level (bullseye) it’s worth the few dollars to hey cost sometimes old school hardware stores have them at the register ( the rectangular logs) with their name as a key fob for like fiddy-cents each.
Have fun!
John
Ps was the exhibit good? Did they have Calder’s Circus, his drawings (where he never lifts the pencil from start to finish) or kinetic sculptures? Picasso and Calder together must have been a heck of a show!

 

[Donald Qualls]

It actually is possible to eliminate convergence of horizontals, too, in one or the other plane. The same principle applies: the film plane has to be parallel with the surface you want to be kept "square" and then you use shift (along with front rise, if needed) to frame. Can't be done for all three (vertical and both horizontals) -- something is going to converge if you have a view angle that shows more than one facing of the structure.

 

[Darryl Roberts]

Hi Darryl.. I’m not familiar with your camera.: are there spirit levels on the film back and front standard?
…. After you frame the way you like loosen the back and front and “0” them out do the same for the lens standard... this might take messing with your tripod a little ( and standing on a stool if you are under 5'10" like me ). You probably have grid lines on your ground glass …. when you adjust standards you can see the before / after difference and line things up the way you want .. you can also fine tune the image ( rise fall, splay the roof a little do whatever you want ) to do what you want at that point to adjust the composition …. If you don’t have levels (or the ones on the camera are all dried out ) get a post level (bullseye) it’s worth the few dollars to hey cost sometimes old school hardware stores have them at the register ( the rectangular logs) with their name as a key fob for like fiddy-cents each.
Have fun!
John
Ps was the exhibit good? Did they have Calder’s Circus, his drawings (where he never lifts the pencil from start to finish) or kinetic sculptures? Picasso and Calder together must have been a heck of a show!

Yes, it has spirit levels, it's a Chamonix 45 N-2

The exhibit is excellent, surely their best work, including Calder's Circus. Paintings and sculptures by both artists, fascinating.

 

[Darryl Roberts]

It actually is possible to eliminate convergence of horizontals, too, in one or the other plane. The same principle applies: the film plane has to be parallel with the surface you want to be kept "square" and then you use shift (along with front rise, if needed) to frame. Can't be done for all three (vertical and both horizontals) -- something is going to converge if you have a view angle that shows more than one facing of the structure.

Excellent reply, thank you.

 

[16:9]

Or scan it to Photoshop? Sorry.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

It actually is possible to eliminate convergence of horizontals, too, in one or the other plane. The same principle applies: the film plane has to be parallel with the surface you want to be kept "square" and then you use shift (along with front rise, if needed) to frame. Can't be done for all three (vertical and both horizontals) -- something is going to converge if you have a view angle that shows more than one facing of the structure.

Donald: Is this why when shooting some landscape shots, the converging horizontals make the horizon appear unlevel?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Is that pincushioning or do the sides of the building draw in and expand as the elevation increases?

 

[wiltw]

Is that pincushioning or do the sides of the building draw in and expand as the elevation increases?

Way cool buiding design, if the pincushion appearance is inherent to the building structure!

 

[Sirius Glass]

Is the building in Atlanta?

 

[removed account4]

snip

The exhibit is excellent, surely their best work, including Calder's Circus. Paintings and sculptures by both artists, fascinating.

talk about fun, I hope it ends up in my neck of the woods sometime!

 

[Donald Qualls]

Donald: Is this why when shooting some landscape shots, the converging horizontals make the horizon appear unlevel?

I'm not sure I follow this question.

If you have the horizon level (rear standard bubble level centered ought to do it), swinging the rear standard to correct converging horizontals on one plane should affect the horizon. Now, if you have converging horizontals, it might cause an optical illusion that fools your eye into thinking the horizon isn't level, but that's just what it is.

 

[Helge]

You can simulate shift by doing a half frame crop of the wide angle lens on an iPhone.
Almost exactly the same basic optics.

 

[warden]

The exhibit is excellent, surely their best work, including Calder's Circus. Paintings and sculptures by both artists, fascinating.

Calder was a straight-up genius, truly touched. Wish I could have seen it!

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I'm not sure I follow this question.

If you have the horizon level (rear standard bubble level centered ought to do it), swinging the rear standard to correct converging horizontals on one plane should affect the horizon. Now, if you have converging horizontals, it might cause an optical illusion that fools your eye into thinking the horizon isn't level, but that's just what it is.

Well, that's my question. Or point. Just as a building's walls that are converging and look slanted on the verticle, if the horizon is at an angle to the back of a camera, then it too will be slanted on the horizontal giving the illusion the horizon isn't flat or even.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

...or take a photo of buildings where they are leaning toward each other and tip the photo 90 degrees to the left. Imagine the walls being the horizon. So now the horizon isn't level. This is why horizons don't look level without movements.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Well, yes, but as discussed above, you can control convergence in verticals and in one plane of horizontals. If you have the film plane vertical (i.e. rear standard bubble level centered), your horizon will be level regardless of convergence in artificial edges like building rooflines.

As a thought experiment: consider a camera set up for an architecture shot with a broad bay in the background. in order to avoid converging verticals, you use the bubble level to set the rear standard plumb (presumed parallel with the verticals in the building) and use front rist to set your vertical view; you then use rear swing (or, lacking that as with most cameras, rotate the entire camera and use front shift for framing) to eliminate one set of converging horizontals -- say, the front facade roofline and rows of windows or brick courses (you then have to allow a second visible facade, if present, to converge). Set up this way, the horizon in the shot will be level as measured from the frame or by parallelism to the non-converging horizontals (or perpendicularity to the non-converging verticals) on the building (presuming, as we do, that the architect and contractor were competent and not being intentionally "artsy").

 

[gone]

Something to keep in mind: sometimes getting everything all lined up in a photo looks a little wrong, there's usually some compromises, and our eyes aren't micrometers. A little shift here and there is acceptable, it wouldn't need to be perfect.

That whole LF upside-down-image thing never worked for me, so I used a reflex viewer and would just get the image to look right on the gg "by any means necessary". If it looks right on the gg, then it is.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Well, yes, but as discussed above, you can control convergence in verticals and in one plane of horizontals. If you have the film plane vertical (i.e. rear standard bubble level centered), your horizon will be level regardless of convergence in artificial edges like building rooflines.

As a thought experiment: consider a camera set up for an architecture shot with a broad bay in the background. in order to avoid converging verticals, you use the bubble level to set the rear standard plumb (presumed parallel with the verticals in the building) and use front rist to set your vertical view; you then use rear swing (or, lacking that as with most cameras, rotate the entire camera and use front shift for framing) to eliminate one set of converging horizontals -- say, the front facade roofline and rows of windows or brick courses (you then have to allow a second visible facade, if present, to converge). Set up this way, the horizon in the shot will be level as measured from the frame or by parallelism to the non-converging horizontals (or perpendicularity to the non-converging verticals) on the building (presuming, as we do, that the architect and contractor were competent and not being intentionally "artsy").

Having come from medium format and 35mm, without the advantage of movements, I always wondered about landscape horizons that never seem to look flat.