So who has ordered their M9

[donbga]

Well this week saw Leica make their long awaited announcement of the full frame M9.

So who has one (or two) ordered or are planning to purchase the M9?

Don Bryant

 

[nsouto]

would love to. but not being a pro,
I can't afford it, or justify its purchase.
simple as that.

 

[donbga]

would love to. but not being a pro,
I can't afford it, or justify its purchase.
simple as that.

Just give up a few froo-froo coffees for a few months and you will have enough money saved for the M9 - case!

Don

 

[pellicle]

would love to. but not being a pro,
I can't afford it, or justify its purchase.
simple as that.

and if you were a Pro you'd perhaps pick a more suitable system such as from Nikon or Canon ... its lovely that its compact but as a system camera I think that a 1DsII or D3X makes a better choice... does Leica have for instance a Tilt Shift lens as does Canon (and now) Nikon? Handy for architecture (or even real estate) professionals.

 

[pellicle]

Just give up a few froo-froo coffees for a few months and you will have enough money saved for the M9 - case!

Don

Don ... I gotta wonder how much coffee costs there!

:-D

 

[livemoa]

I haven't ordered mine yet, but have been offered an hour with one shortly as I know someone who has...... Not giving up my M6 yet.

Also, rumor has it, at least two, and maybe five, local professionals have placed orders for S2 kits. And I think I know one .......

Pellicle, I think I know what you are saying, but I know any number of pro photographers who don't have a tilt shift lens in their bag. They just don't do architecture. For the ones who do that stuff, generally, out comes a 5x4 and a scan back or a few film holders. I also know a photographer who does family portraits with a M6, thinks SLR's are totally useless for working with moving kids. Gear is gear, we all make choices and a brand does not make us more or less "professional".

The idea of an SLR as a professional camera is more driven by perception I think. I do some head shot, grip and grin sort of stuff. Clients expect a dSLR, I take both my D200 and M6. Shoot both often. Most clients like the M6 shots when they see them, but I would not have got that far without the D200. Expectations..... In all honesty, in most cases a good point and shot would have done the job.

 

[Joe Lipka]

As soon as I win the lotto.

If I could photograph with a Leica, develop in Amidol and print on Azo, I would have the best pictures in the universe.

 

[donbga]

and if you were a Pro you'd perhaps pick a more suitable system such as from Nikon or Canon ... its lovely that its compact but as a system camera I think that a 1DsII or D3X makes a better choice... does Leica have for instance a Tilt Shift lens as does Canon (and now) Nikon? Handy for architecture (or even real estate) professionals.

Chris you are comparing apples to oranges, IMO.

Don

 

[donbga]

Don ... I gotta wonder how much coffee costs there!

:-D

Chris,

A fruu-fruu coffee at Starbucks can cost as much as $4.50. Or a large regular brew is over $2.00. Add a pastry and next thing you know one can easily burn a $5 bill.

Don

 

[nsouto]

Yeah, same here.
Not 5 bucks but its equivalent in Pacific pesos, around $7.50... and more...

Still, just about enough for a case. I use a Zeiss Ikon with Leica, CV and Rokkor lenses for film and that was already expensive enough!

Still trying to "convince" myself I "need" the new 50/1.1. Anyone want to buy a EX Nikon D80?

 

[pellicle]

Hi Don

Chris,

A fruu-fruu coffee at Starbucks can cost as much as $4.50. Or a large regular brew is over $2.00. Add a pastry and next thing you know one can easily burn a $5 bill.

Don

I figured it would be as much, but that's still 1400 go withouts and I don't drink that many in a day to afford it this year (or next ;-)

and sure ... its apples n oranges ... but they're both fruit right? I compare my Toho 4x5 to my G1 in some terms too.



as much as I love the rangefinder thing (I grew up using an Aries Viscount 35mm rangefinder), as a camera it is more or less a wide angle and standard lens camera I struggle to find a professional location or 'paradigm' where it excels over a 5D II

perhaps "street" photography or some parts of wedding photography. I'm happy for you to widen my thinking here.

PS I actually did give up coffee on the way to work in the train for a month to pay for a new motherboard on my laptop (required for use on the same train) ... that only took a month and was a more attainable gal ... so the concept is something I'm familiar with ;-)

 

[donbga]

as much as I love the rangefinder thing (I grew up using an Aries Viscount 35mm rangefinder), as a camera it is more or less a wide angle and standard lens camera I struggle to find a professional location or 'paradigm' where it excels over a 5D II

perhaps "street" photography or some parts of wedding photography. I'm happy for you to widen my thinking here.

Chris,

There are pros that prefer a rangefinder over a DSLR in certain situations such as photography in corporate board rooms, wedding receptions, theater photography, and candid child photography. The M9 will satisfy their need to produce a digital file and have a stealthy quite inconspicuous camera.

I have a friend who is a local pro who can't wait to upgrade his M8 to the M9. He continues to prefer his Leicas to his Canon DSLRs, and he is a young guy, not an older pro clinging to the past. Corporate photographer Kirk Tuck has written about his preference for Leica Ms for certain kinds of work mentioned above.

Besides, Leica produces lenses that can't be matched by Canon or Nikon on their best days.

Don

 

[donbga]

Yeah, same here.
Not 5 bucks but its equivalent in Pacific pesos, around $7.50... and more...

Still, just about enough for a case. I use a Zeiss Ikon with Leica, CV and Rokkor lenses for film and that was already expensive enough!

Still trying to "convince" myself I "need" the new 50/1.1. Anyone want to buy a EX Nikon D80?

The Zeiss Ikon is a great camera. I'm wondering if there is going to be a digital version in the near future.

Don

 

[pellicle]

Evening

... rangefinder over a DSLR in certain situations such as photography in corporate board rooms, wedding receptions, theater photography, and candid child photography.

that's about the sorts of places I was thinking (although not so much theater as I'd tend towards > 90mm). I once upon a time did some corporate conventions n stuff and found anything shorter than 50mm was less used.

I was at a conference last week here in Helsinki, took some shots for work with a G1 (4/3rds sensor therefore x2 factor) where I found myself mainly using my 100mm

and 300mm lenses

(note: interesting pattern forming on the background there, wonder if that's the far wall in some sort of phase effect of something else ... hmmm ... anyway I've wished for better high ISO performance with the G1 that's for sure)
although I have wider (down to 9mm) I just didn't seem to use them as much

(opportunity to get in peoples faces is more restricted)

I find the G1 a compact and discrete camera (and I could use the Leica lenses too) with a much handier swivel screen (as well as a EVF). Perhaps I could focus a proper dual floating image rangefinder faster than the G1 but I'm not sure it would work well with longer lenses.

what does the Leica "couple" up to? Was 90mm or so in the 'old days'

(btw, not being pedantice, just discussing

 

[donbga]

with a much handier swivel screen (as well as a EVF)

Never cared for either, even though I've tested both trying friends cameras. I prefer standard rangefinder viewing. Also EVFs don't work well in low light.

Perhaps I could focus a proper dual floating image rangefinder faster than the G1 but I'm not sure it would work well with longer lenses.

Again you are mixing whisky and gin, rangefinders weren't made for 'long' lenses.

what does the Leica "couple" up to? Was 90mm or so in the 'old days'

I think 135 mm is the max though most people don't go past 90mm .

Don

 

[pellicle]

Hi

Never cared for either, even though I've tested both trying friends cameras. I prefer standard rangefinder viewing. Also EVFs don't work well in low light.

well firstly I'll agree about the low light, but it might be lower light than you're thinking ... for example here the G1 viewfinder was quite bright, and has no trouble getting AF as fast as anywhere else

but here there was just nothing in the view finder at all ... it required a 40 second exposure at 400ISO

Anyway, back to the point, I understand that each person has personal preferences to how a tool should function and feel, so I have no problems at all with someone preferring a rangefinder interface ... I know I like them for some things too. Nn that subject I'm not sure if you've tried a G1 as the EVF is a generation ahead of anything else (which I thought of as rubbish) that I've ever touched.

but its not that G1 which I'm interested to discuss here ... I raised it as an alternative to a Leica only as a compact and discrete camera to use.

Again you are mixing whisky and gin, rangefinders weren't made for 'long' lenses.

well compared to apples and oranges (as I like fruit salad) this is just plain offensive ... so I see where you're heading with that.

but I wasn't doing what you think. I was simply examining the requirments of jobs and determining what equipment I would probably choose for that. I then provided examples of what images I was after in why I would choose the focal lengths I cited.

I think 135 mm is the max though most people don't go past 90mm .
Don

which makes the camera of far more limited utility to my understanding of what a professional would need (especially given its full frame).

I should stress at this point I'm not trying to be a pisser, I'm trying to understand what it is the tool is good for.

 

[pellicle]

Don

... Corporate photographer Kirk Tuck ...

checked out his site ... I understand more now that I see his work.

I also note that he's writing about Olympus 4/3rds cameras now too ... his latest blog seems to be discussing the use in Theater where it seems he uses his Olympus E30 with a 70-200mm.

I realise reading his blog I've come across it before. I liked this quote last time I read it too:

Well. I bought the e30 camera last week so I could give the art directors who care a real 12 megapixel file without any explanations. And I bought some cool lenses so I'd be ready for wide ranging jobs like the three or four annual reports we do each year. But I really did it so I could keep shooting my own stuff with the e1's

I would suspect that if he had to be more economic with his systems choices that he may pass on the M9 too ... actually there is not a single mention of it on his blog. But thats my suspicion and not anything more.

Personally I'm saddened that Leica have priced the camera so high. I believe that it is a barrier to their success ... and that (at a corporate level) is something which is certainly on the table. I'd hate to see them go under, but I think they may be catering to a decreasing market ... again my own speculations.

Kirks top 10 digital cameras

 

[toyotadesigner]

No need to purchase the M9:

I have a complete system of Fuji & Plaubel 6x9 cameras, a nice Arca Swiss LF system with a bunch of fine Rodenstock lenses, a very wide assortment of professional (analog) Nikon cameras and lenses, a complete Contax G2 system plus the most silent and unobtrusive cameras for theaters and meetings: a Rollei 35s and a Minox 35 GT.

Absolutely no need for digital here.

Before I would sink my funds into the M9 I'd rather order the Voigtlnder Bessa III and an additional Rodenstock lens for my Arca Swiss plus some filters and a half truckload slide film incl. lab vouchers. With the rest of the funds I'd make a trip to south east Asia or spend a winter in Canada and Alaska.

 

[donbga]

Absolutely no need for digital here.

Unless one needs a digital file right out of the camera and wants to shoot with a real rangefinder.

 

[donbga]

Voigtlnder Bessa III

I've handled the Fuji version of this camera. It is a nice camera and the image quality is excellent.

One cool feature is that the frame lines move as you focus. I also like the ability to change to 6x6 on the fly. And I think it may have the quietest shutter I've ever heard or not heard as the case maybe.

 

[toyotadesigner]

Unless one needs a digital file right out of the camera and wants to shoot with a real rangefinder.

Sure. As appealing it is to use a rangefinder especially a Leica for this task, I think most of the photographers in a fast paced environment prefer a DSLR (for whatever reason).

IMHO you'll choose a Leica if you want perfect results with the best lenses money can buy, that means if you have clients who see the difference between pristine and distorting lenses.

Sometimes I wish I could participate in the 'life on the fast lane' for a few weeks. Actively involved of course. But on the other hand I know I've found my niche. Just two very different worlds

 

[toyotadesigner]

I've handled the Fuji version of this camera. It is a nice camera and the image quality is excellent.

As it had been expected. The advantages of the Bessa III compared to the 690 series are the collapsible format and the built-in exposure meter. If portability would be an issue for me, I'm not sure if I could resist to trade my GW and GSW for the Bessa III. But now I've learned to live with the bricks

 

[pellicle]

Hi

I've handled the Fuji version of this camera. It is a nice camera and the image quality is excellent.

<sigh/>

I've not been thinking about that camera cos living here in Finland I've not had the chance to fiddle with one ... sometimes I wish I was still living in Tokyo.

One cool feature is that the frame lines move as you focus. I also like the ability to change to 6x6 on the fly. And I think it may have the quietest shutter I've ever heard or not heard as the case maybe.

nice ... parallax correction I assume?

 

[nsouto]

checked out his site ... I understand more now that I see his work.

Spend some time watching the three videos here:

http://aphotocontributor.typepad.com/aphotocontributor/2009/09/experimental-firmware.html

Where it comes to "street" photography, when Chris "Semanas" and Severin Koller talk I listen carefully. They make a living out of it unlike most of us. And they know why they use their gear and what for.
Most of it can be classed as "touchy/feely" kinda stuff, but nevertheless it's good to know what tickles these guys' fancy.
Both still use film, Seve more than Chris. I've learned heaps by listening and watching these two guys. Seve has a great Xtol development technique for Tri-X which I've used with very good results.


Note: the three videos were entirely shot on a 5dm2. For once someone has made a video without the incredibly boring, camera-static "Laforet" shots!
Nothing like that here. And surprisingly, it works rather well.

There is some focus running and other exposure inacuracies, but overall it's the first true docu video worth its name I've seen made with that camera. The vast majority of "videos" out there made with it are just boring "stand it on a tripod and hope for the best" amateurish efforts.

 

[Peter De Smidt]

A friend of mine, a very accomplished and experienced head photographer for a multi-billion dollar company, bought one of the earlier half frame digital Leicas. He was very, very disappointed with the image quality. Sure, Leica glass is usually great, but they haven't proven that they can build a great digital camera. Hopefully, they've taken care of that with the M9, but if it were me, I'd wait until a few fairly objective reviews are in. Unless I win Lotto, of course. If I do, I'll need something to put in the 911's trunk.