Selenium toning (for negs) sequence

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
179,414
Messages
2,469,742
Members
94,809
Latest member
Keezly
Recent bookmarks
0

Foto Ludens

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,121
Shooter
Multi Format
I'm going to be intensifying a few negatives with selenium in the near future, and would like some tips on how to go about it.

Ansel Adam's The Negative suggests pre-soaking it, fixing, toning with a selenium/hypo-clear mix, and finnaly hypo-clearing and washing.

Is the re-fix really necessary? Could I just wash, tone, and wash? Can it be done is open light, or should I do it in tanks?

I've done prints before, and I believe it was a soak, selenium, fix routine (but I could be wrong).

All and any help is appreciated
 

noseoil

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2003
Messages
2,894
Location
Tucson
Shooter
Multi Format
Andre, I was thinking of trying the same thing on a 4x5 just to see. What I was planning on trying was to soak the film in distilled water for about 5 minutes (on an already dry film and not enough contrast in the highlights for a good grade 2 print). Then I would do a "normal" soak in selenium (1:9) for 3 or 4 minutes. After this, a rinse for 10 or 15 minutes should be ok to clear the film. Dry as a normal film and see what happens. I don't think you would get more than a half to a full grade out of this process (depending on film, contrast, concentration, etc.)

I have never tried this before, but this is how I would do it. I'm sure someone on the forum will have better information and technique than this, but it would be my starting point.
 

Donald Miller

Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2002
Messages
6,233
Shooter
Large Format
The manner that I do this is to presoak the film, intensify with selenium at the proper dilution, hypo clearing agent (since selenium does contain sodium thiosulfate), followed by a wash, rinse in photoflo, and dry.
 
OP
OP
Foto Ludens

Foto Ludens

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,121
Shooter
Multi Format
Thanks,

half a grade is better than nothing... My contact sheets are at full contrast (color head), so anything to give me some working room would be good. Some shadow separation wouldn't hurt either, to be honest (there's detail there, just need more POP)

I'm thinking a tap water bath (could use distilled if it's REALLY recommended), then a 1:3 selenium bath for however long it takes (toning to completion might work, I'll test a bad neg first), then wash, photo-flo, and dry...

what do you think?
 

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Messages
19,851
Location
Honolulu, Ha
Shooter
Large Format
Re-fixing in plain hypo is only necessary, if you originally used a hardening fixer like Kodak Rapid Fix with the hardener. I don't use a hardening fixer typically, so I don't re-fix before selenium intensification. About 8 min KRST at 1+3 should get you about a one zone expansion.
 
OP
OP
Foto Ludens

Foto Ludens

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,121
Shooter
Multi Format
Thanks david...

call me dumb, but I didn't see your first post (must have come up while I was typing my reply)


Thanks a bunch, that answers all the questions
 

Poco

Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Messages
652
Shooter
Multi Format
Andre,

When I first tried intensification, I also started with a bum negative and put a piece of tape across part of it that kept that area from intensifying. It gave me a good "control" area from which to judge intensification's effect. As a test, it was informative, but more importantly, it was fun!
 
OP
OP
Foto Ludens

Foto Ludens

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,121
Shooter
Multi Format
Poco,

That sounds like a plan... at least it will tell me what to expect.
As far as the fun part goes:
Well, when you do custom framing for a living, and your hands are full of razor blade cuts, the mere idea of handling selenium scares the crap out of you. Even if you are wearing latex gloves...

But, yeah, it should be fun! :smile:
 

lee

Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2002
Messages
2,912
Location
Fort Worth T
Shooter
8x10 Format
There is more selenium in some hair sampoos than in Selenium Toner. Put the gloves on and don't worry about it. Just don't confuse the coke and the toner and drink it. The bad smell is really a fixer smell and is nothing to worry about.

lee\c
 
OP
OP
Foto Ludens

Foto Ludens

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,121
Shooter
Multi Format
Well, I have started to tone some negs in selenium diluted 1:3 in hypo-clear, and have a couple of questions:

Is there a problem in toning negs in a stainless steel tank? I have been doing it in trays so I can know when to stop, but if I'm going to tone to completion, does it matter?

Does agitation (in a tray) greatly influence the toning? Will a "stand" toning affect the shadows more than the highlights? I'm thinking that the selenium might exhaust the way developers do (or at least weaken to a point where my highlights would tone slower), but I might be wrong....

Does dilluting selenium in hypo-clear slow down the toning? I mixed it the way Ansel Adam's "The Negative" shows it. I figured it would be a safer bet when washing time came (I still put the negs in a pure hypo-clear bath for 2 min. afterwards)

Thank you for all your responses (the previous and the future ones)

André
 

Andrew O'Neill

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
7,700
Location
Coquitlam,BC Canada
Shooter
Multi Format
The whole idea of mixing he HCA with selenium was to eliminate the HCA after toning. You're doing it one-step. I personally do not like that way. I dilute selenium with water 1+3 and do the HCA after a water rinse. By diluting the toner with water you can extend the life of the toner. Toner is much more expensive than HCA.
 

Ole

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 9, 2002
Messages
9,250
Location
Bergen, Norway
Shooter
Large Format
It is generally not recommended to dilute selenium toner with hypo clear. The toner lasts a very long time, the HCA not. so you'll be wasting good toner...

A few days ago I decided to intensify an irritatingly flat negative. I bleached in pot.ferri/bromide, then redeveloped in a pyro/carbonate mix. Worked like a dream, gave lots better highlight separatoin, and is reversible in case I don't like the result.
 
OP
OP
Foto Ludens

Foto Ludens

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
1,121
Shooter
Multi Format
Ole said:
It is generally not recommended to dilute selenium toner with hypo clear. The toner lasts a very long time, the HCA not. so you'll be wasting good toner...

this brings up a point: How does one know when the HCA has gone bad? As of right know, I used the fixer as the meter. Fixer just went bad, so my HCA should be bad as well, right?

By the way, the HCA I used in and following the selenium were fresh...
 

Ole

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 9, 2002
Messages
9,250
Location
Bergen, Norway
Shooter
Large Format
Good question - and one I've never thought about!

Sulfite can oxidise to sulfate, absorb sulfide and turn to thiosulfate, or (eventually) decompose to sulfur and sulfate - just like thiosulfate does.

I've never been in the habit of using HCA, so the question has never occurred to me. Anyone with any good leads?
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab
Top Bottom