Selenium Toning/And Pre-Soak Question

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by bsdunek, Mar 3, 2009.

  1. bsdunek

    bsdunek Subscriber

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    Generally I selenium tone my prints right out of the print washer. I have noticed that putting dry prints in the selenium seems to give a stronger effect. I suppose the water in the print dilutes the toner somewhat, however this is RC paper so I wouldn't think it would hold much water.
    How do you tone? and what is your experience?
     
  2. Martin Aislabie

    Martin Aislabie Subscriber

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    Selenium Toning - Why Pre Soak?

    All the literature about Selenium Toning recommends that the paper be pre-soaked in a water bath prior to Toning.

    The minimum pre-soak time seems to vary a bit but they all recommend you use one.

    Does anyone know why we should pre-soak?

    If the Toning time was short I can understand that pre-soaking would give more consistent results, as the toner would be taken up by the paper more evenly.

    However, if the Toning time is long (several minutes plus) then the slight unevenness of the Toner take up would be insignificant in the overall time.

    I am quite happy to pre-soak but I am curious as to the reason why

    Thanks

    Martin
     
  3. bill schwab

    bill schwab Advertiser Advertiser

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    You've pretty much answered your own question. Best to have the paper saturated before you begin so it takes the toner evenly. If you're doing a batch or edition and you want them to look the same...

    Pretty simple.
     
  4. SuzanneR

    SuzanneR Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I presoak for a few minutes in water with a little perma wash. Once, I threw a print into the toner (brain fart) without first soaking it, and I ended up with a big stain on the border. Apparently, it hadn't washed quite thoroughly, and I think... had I soaked it, I might have avoided that fixer stain.
     
  5. trexx

    trexx Member

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    It is due to unevenness. I have seen prints that were not in the presoak long enough and parts toned more then others. I did a batch or prints once and the first one out was blotchy compared to the others. I doubt it would be noticed if not for the others to check against.
     
  6. SuzanneR

    SuzanneR Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I've merged two selenium toning threads that started at around the same time, and changed the title for clarity.
     
  7. catem

    catem Member

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    Putting a dry print into toner is a bit like pushing someone down some steps rather than letting them walk down of their own accord....
    The concentration of the toner will be too strong and the results unpredictable - the effect will take place immediately, so better avoided regardless of the time in the toner. It's also an easy enough thing to do so no good reason to leave it out.
    I pre-soak FB prints for 10 mins in plain water. It's especially important for bleaching, including a toning step requiring pre-bleaching to have the print well soaked or the results will be far too aggressive. It's also important to wash well (10-15mins min., running water) between toning (including bleaching) steps.
     
  8. Martin Aislabie

    Martin Aislabie Subscriber

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    Sorry Bill, still confused - its probably just me being dim (again:rolleyes:smile:

    A difference of say 20 seconds in the take up of the Toner in 2 minutes would be significant.

    But 20 seconds in 10 mins would be very hard to detect.

    Martin
     
  9. bill schwab

    bill schwab Advertiser Advertiser

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    Whatever works for you Martin. Seems like your question has been answered several time here, but it seems as if you already have your own answers. I don't have anything to add. Best of luck.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2009
  10. Martin Aislabie

    Martin Aislabie Subscriber

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    I think your right Bill - I am just going to have to try it for myself :smile:

    Martin
     
  11. bill schwab

    bill schwab Advertiser Advertiser

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    There you go. That is always a good way to learn.