Second Developing Attempt: Still Purple

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RattyMouse

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I just finished up with my second developing of my own film. Still Kodak Tri-X in D-76, 1:1. This time I did a pre-soak stage, soaking the film in 20 C water for 3 mins. No agitation here, just soaking.

After developing, stopping, fixing, and then washing, I find that my film still has the purple color to it. The negatives look great otherwise.

I know that this is not a serious flaw, yet I still want to improve and get my negatives as clear as when they come back from a pro lab.

What else can I do to clear away this purple color? Should I agitate during the pre-soak? Should I do more than one pre-soak?

Finally, I'm told that these purple negatives will print well, but will they scan well too? I need to send my negatives out for scanning and I dont know if this purple color will confuse them.

Thanks!
 
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You should use a washing agent (hypo-clear). How long are you washing?

The slight purple is no big deal at all though you do want to make sure your negatives are fixed properly. Is your fixer fresh? If so, I would just add a wash aid to your procedure, wash for 10 minutes and call it a day.

The negs will not confuse your lab. They will scan fine.
 

Tom1956

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Don't worry about it. They all come out a little purple for the most part.
 
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RattyMouse

RattyMouse

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You should use a washing agent (hypo-clear). How long are you washing?

The slight purple is no big deal at all though you do want to make sure your negatives are fixed properly. Is your fixer fresh? If so, I would just add a wash aid to your procedure, wash for 10 minutes and call it a day.

The negs will not confuse your lab. They will scan fine.

I'm not using a hypo-clear chemical.

I'm using the Ilford method to wash, plus an additional fill and 20 inversions.

My fixer, Kodafix, has only seen 1 roll of film through it, now 2 rolls.

When I dumped out the pre-soak water it was VERY purple.

The developer, stop bath, fixer, and washes all dumped out clear.
 

Tom1956

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Trust me RM--you're fine. You did everything right. You don't have a problem.
 

momus

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I wash mine for 40-45 minutes. Gets rid of most of the purple.
 

Tom1956

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They don't use D-76 in those big machines. They use harsher chemistry. Frankly I can't explain the lingering purple of home-developed film, but I've almost always had it. The only thing I've learned from my years is that the pre-wash water always pours out dark, and developer does not, if I don't pre-wash. So that means either the development "sets the stain", or there's some kind of chemical reaction going on. But the fact remains that the pre-wash water pour out nasty and dark, an the film comes out less purple. After that, don't worry about it. I think it fades a little in time. Always more purple when fresh out of the tank, wet.
You don't have a problem, you did just fine.
 

MattKing

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You need not worry about a magenta tinge to your negatives.

And like as not, the commercial labs probably use something similar to D-76 in a replenishment regime. What they do do though (if they are any good) is control the chemistry carefully, including things like ph, and wash quite thoroughly. They probably use treated water as well.

I never have problems with pink/magenta negatives, but I'm blessed with excellent tap water, I do pre-soak, I use replenished HC-110, I use stop bath, I use two stage rapid fixer, I use hypo clearing agent and I use a ten minute running water wash.

I list these things not because any particular one is a solution, but rather to point out that there are all sorts of variables that can influence the result.
 

johnielvis

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3 minutes plus what kind of time developing?

what you can try is put it directly in the developer--develop to your time and temp...then use a water rinse instead of stop bath...bring the water temp up a bit for the rinse--get it warm to the touch soak it for multiple rinses--give it some agitation to make sure there's enough contact. out with the water--in with new warm water. keep with say 3 or 4 washes of or 3 minutes warm water--you should see color coming out there. do the rest of the process at the warmer temperature too--fixing and washing. the goal is to get it all out before the fixing step. if it's old film, it may take longer, but it eventually all comes out. ideally get it all out before the fix. never use stop bath!
 
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Yes I agree everything you're doing is fine. I would recommend a hypo-clearing agent in addition to your procedure. It will help wash your film and also remove a bit more of that purple. Other than that don't stress the tint.
 
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RattyMouse

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3 minutes plus what kind of time developing?

what you can try is put it directly in the developer--develop to your time and temp...then use a water rinse instead of stop bath...bring the water temp up a bit for the rinse--get it warm to the touch soak it for multiple rinses--give it some agitation to make sure there's enough contact. out with the water--in with new warm water. keep with say 3 or 4 washes of or 3 minutes warm water--you should see color coming out there. do the rest of the process at the warmer temperature too--fixing and washing. the goal is to get it all out before the fixing step. if it's old film, it may take longer, but it eventually all comes out. ideally get it all out before the fix. never use stop bath!

9 mins, 45 seconds @ 20 C.
 

Tom1956

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Water rinse with warm water instead of stop bath? That's practically the same as 2-part developers with the second part being some caustic chemical like carbonate to exhaust the developer trying to bring up the toe of the film. This guy is new to developing. He needs his D-76 to do it's job like Kodak planned it, and halt it hard-and-fast when it's over. By all means, pour in that acetic acid bath and stop development like it hit a brick wall. Pour nothing but warm water in after development can be voodoo to a new guy. I can't agree with that at all.
 
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RattyMouse

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They don't use D-76 in those big machines. They use harsher chemistry. Frankly I can't explain the lingering purple of home-developed film, but I've almost always had it. The only thing I've learned from my years is that the pre-wash water always pours out dark, and developer does not, if I don't pre-wash. So that means either the development "sets the stain", or there's some kind of chemical reaction going on. But the fact remains that the pre-wash water pour out nasty and dark, an the film comes out less purple. After that, don't worry about it. I think it fades a little in time. Always more purple when fresh out of the tank, wet.
You don't have a problem, you did just fine.

The lab I use offers many different chemical processes to choose from (D-76, TMAX, DDX, XTOL, Adonal, D96, and HC110). I've always selected either D76 or HC110. The negatives come back without even a hint of purple. I never knew there was a purple layer on film before, that's how clear they are.
 

RPC

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Before fixing, my negatives (T-Max sheet film) are always magenta. After fixing for 10 minutes (C-41 fixer) about 90% of the magenta is gone. The rest disappears after about 5-10 minutes of washing, and they are completely clear. All I can recommend is fixing and/or washing longer.

There used to be a sticky thread on this topic but it disappeared for some reason.
 
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RattyMouse

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Before fixing, my negatives (T-Max sheet film) are always magenta. After fixing for 10 minutes (C-41 fixer) about 90% of the magenta is gone. The rest disappears after about 5-10 minutes of washing, and they are completely clear. All I can recommend is fixing and/or washing longer.

There used to be a sticky thread on this topic but it disappeared for some reason.

I will wash much longer next time. From what I read, my washing time is pretty quick compared to most. Can I use warm water for washing? I have been using cold water out of the tap for my washes.
 

Tom1956

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RattyMouse, I've been developing film for 43 years with either D-76 or Microdol, and I'm telling you that you did just fine. Either that, or I'm a total knucklehead. (which is possible).
 
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RattyMouse

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RattyMouse, I've been developing film for 43 years with either D-76 or Microdol, and I'm telling you that you did just fine. Either that, or I'm a total knucklehead. (which is possible).

Thank you kindly. I am now unconcerned about my results with the purple color. Now I am just interested as a chemist (my day job).
 

Tom1956

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Thank you kindly. I am now unconcerned about my results with the purple color. Now I am just interested as a chemist (my day job).

On my day job, I'm just a nobody printer with dirty hands who must be stupid, or else I'd be doing something else.:D
 
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MattKing

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I will wash much longer next time. From what I read, my washing time is pretty quick compared to most. Can I use warm water for washing? I have been using cold water out of the tap for my washes.

Try to keep all solutions within 2 C of the same temperature - the one you are using for development.

If you can work at room temperature, than you can use a 5 litre pail of water at that temperature for your wash - just fill, soak and dump 10 times (assuming use of a wash aid).
 
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RattyMouse

RattyMouse

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Try to keep all solutions within 2 C of the same temperature - the one you are using for development.

If you can work at room temperature, than you can use a 5 litre pail of water at that temperature for your wash - just fill, soak and dump 10 times (assuming use of a wash aid).

I have only monitored the temperature of my pre-soak and developer. The acid stop bath, fixing agent, and washes are all done at room temp, probably 18 C or cooler.
 

MattKing

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I have only monitored the temperature of my pre-soak and developer. The acid stop bath, fixing agent, and washes are all done at room temp, probably 18 C or cooler.

You can do everything at 18 C - including the developer.
 

Michael W

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The Ilford wash (5,10,20) is pretty brief and i think it's only suitable if you had a hypo clear stage. When I home develop I don't use hypo clear but I wash for a reasonably long time. I fill the tank with water and let it sit for about five minutes, them pour out, refill and repeat. I do about 6 or 7 of these so the wash time ends up around 30 to 40 minutes. I don't get any pink tinges in the film base after this. I seem to recall this wash method was suggested by Photo Engineer as one that was recommended by Kodak. As the film sits in the still water the fix and dyes resorb out into the water and are then poured down the sink, so you don't require running water or constant agitation.
 

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It's important to maintain consistent temps during all steps of your developing process. In my area the water from the tap is between 63 - 70 F, which usually matches the ambient temperature of my bottled chemicals. I just adjust my development times based on the developer temp, and wash longer if the rinse water is colder. Some recommend using hot/cold water baths to regulate the temps of your chemicals before pouring them in the tank.

The anti-halation dye added to many films is what you see when you pour out the pre-wash water. I usually follow the manufacturer's recommendation as to whether to use a pre-wash before developer. After drying, a slight purple tint is not unusual for many films, but Kodak films seem to be more prone to this. I've never found this to cause any problems when printing my negatives. Lengthen fixing times as you process more rolls, keep track of how much film has gone thru that fixer and use Hypo Clearing agent. It's better to fix your film longer than the recommended time (within reason) than to fix for too short a time. I also wash longer than recommended, at least 10 to 20 mins.

If you're new to developing film, maintain a consistent process and follow the manufacturer's recommendations. It also helps to stick to the same film/developer combinations until you learn what results to expect.
 

Rudeofus

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The magenta cast you (and many others) see in Tri-X is the same as the one that was frequently reported with TMAX films. It comes from a sensitizer dye, i.e. an embedded dye that makes sure that the silver halide in the film responds to visible light, not only UV light. This dye sticks well to silver halide, so as long as you have remains of unfixed silver in your film the dye won't wash out. In order to get rid of this dye, you need a strong, fresh fixer and a good washing cycle. If you already have such a purple film strip, you can always refix and rewash until the color cast is gone.
 
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