Rollei Retro 100

Gary Holliday · May 26, 2007

I asked this question earlier in a hi-jacked thread, so thought I would ask if anyone has reported any quality control problems with Rollei Retro 100?

It is manufactured by Efke (Zagreb) using the APX 100 base.

Cheers

Ian Grant · May 26, 2007

Gary what do you mean by manufactured ?

Are you saying its an EFKE emulsion, or that the film was slit & packaged at Zagreb ?

Ian

Michel Hardy-Vallée · May 26, 2007

It is normal APX 100 cut and packaged by Maco, using the Rollei brand under agreement, AFAIK. Efke has nothing to do with it.

Ian Grant · May 26, 2007

Thgat's what I thought Michel, but do Maco get it cut and packaged by EFKE ?

Ian

Aurelien · May 26, 2007

I don't think so. Maco has its own material to cut and package films. In fact, the rollei retro films are cut in master rolls made by agfa, but only for 35mm format. So the 120 format does not have an anti halation layer. And films curls in the wide

Gary Holliday · May 26, 2007

I'm not quite sure how much input Efke has into Rollei Retro, that's what I'm trying to ascertain.

Here is the original discussion:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Michel Hardy-Vallée · May 26, 2007

Ian Grant said:
Thgat's what I thought Michel, but do Maco get it cut and packaged by EFKE ?

Ian

We should wait for our active friend Mr. Schmalfuss from Maco to manifest himself on this thread, but my understanding was that Maco has their own cutting and packaging facilities.

Brac · May 27, 2007

As far as manufacture of this product is concerned, this seems to have already been answered in the original thread referred to. See the posting there by Fotohuis on the 19th May. As to quality control I've unfortunately never used the product. Hopefully others who have will comment.

Pete H · May 27, 2007

I've used about 20 rolls in 35mm and about 15 in 120 without any quality problems. Not a huge sample, I know, but I'm happy with it so far.

cheers
Pete

WRSchmalfuss · Jun 2, 2007

mhv said:
We should wait for our active friend Mr. Schmalfuss from Maco to manifest himself on this thread, but my understanding was that Maco has their own cutting and packaging facilities.

Of course, MACO PHOTO PRODUCTS, has his own sources for cutting and packing!

Andrew Moxom · Jun 11, 2007

I second Aurelien. I souped my first two rolls of Retro 100 tonight in my usual Ultrafin and Retro 100 is NOT repeat NOT APX100. There is no anti halation layer as already stated and I found that out by accident. I usually presoak for 5 minutes, and then dump the water straight into my pre-measured ultrafin. The pre-soak is normally dark blue if its APX, and when poured into the ultrafin, the blue turns bright pink. Retro 100 did not do this. Either way, the results of Ultrafin 1:20 for 13 minutes was pretty good first time out of the gate, but film curl is pretty bad, so I believe it's MACO's own stock. The base is also very thin, and darker than APX100.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jun 11, 2007

I still have to develop my first roll of Retro 100 to compare it with APX 100, but I must point out the following detail: these two films have seriously identical spectral sensitivity curves. Looks almost like a cut-and-paste.

I will leave it to the engineers among us to tell us whether it is probable that two different films have such matched spectral curves. Given that spectral curve is very important in a film's "signature", I suppose it would make sense if this were an APX100 emulsion that was coated by someone else than AGFA, hence the noted lack of AH dyes and curling.

Andrew Moxom · Jun 11, 2007

MHV, are you saying that this could be the same agfa APX emulsion, but coated onto a different film base?

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jun 11, 2007

Yes, that is my conjecture. Anyone has data to infirm/confirm it? I'm simply basing this idea on the spectral sensitivity curve.

ath · Jun 12, 2007

Maco confirms in german fora, that the Rollei 100 and 400 were coated by Agfa with the intention to be sold as APX.
Maco bought the masterrolls for 35mm and cuts and packs 35mm and 120 from them.
This last coating is said to be slightly different than the previous APX but within the specification.
Like Aurelian already said, the Rollei 120 behaves different than the Agfa 120 because the film was coated on a base for 35mm. The base is simply different. I don't know, if there is a difference in the emulsion as well.

Andrew Moxom · Jun 12, 2007

Results under the loupe look similar to my other APX films. It's the film base that has the learning curve for me. I have my two rolls in sleeves pressed into a large book to see if can flatten them. I'm not used to curling films.

AgX · Jun 12, 2007

mhv said:
We should wait for our active friend Mr. Schmalfuss from Maco to manifest himself on this thread, but my understanding was that Maco has their own cutting and packaging facilities.

WRSchmalfuss said:
Of course, MACO PHOTO PRODUCTS, has his own sources for cutting and packing!

In a company profile published last year in the German magazine `Foto-Intern´ written by the renown author Koshofer and seemingly done so with collaboration with Maco it was stated that the Rollei-branded films were cut to sheet- and roll-films at Forte, and to 35mm films at PhotoStar, a `new´ German company which came out of the Tura company.

Of course the question could arise why one want to know this all…
Well there are a few around with special interest in the industry, and it seems that a lot of the others in these times of changes in the industry would like to know who still/again is out there.

AgX · Jun 12, 2007

AH-layer…
I would not say just by the fact that there is no typical coloration of processing baths that there is no anti-halation means employed, however this indicates that there is a variation in film…

Until recently I thought emulsions were made just prior to coating. Thus even at the scenario of a company coming to a production standstill it was unlikely to me that there would be an emulsion left-over. But meanwhile I learned that emulsions are shipped. However I got no knowledge whether this happened with an APX emulsion. I come across this issue in this thread for the first time.

Gary Holliday · Jun 12, 2007

Its a pity that the only thing letting this film down is the curl of the base. Not sure if I will stock up on this film as curling makes contacting hell. I wanted the nice little box

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 12, 2007

That doesn't make any sense. Andrew said the base is 'thinner'. 35mm film base is 'thicker'. It doesn't add up.
- Thomas

ath said:
Maco confirms in german fora, that the Rollei 100 and 400 were coated by Agfa with the intention to be sold as APX.
Maco bought the masterrolls for 35mm and cuts and packs 35mm and 120 from them.
This last coating is said to be slightly different than the previous APX but within the specification.
Like Aurelian already said, the Rollei 120 behaves different than the Agfa 120 because the film was coated on a base for 35mm. The base is simply different. I don't know, if there is a difference in the emulsion as well.

Andrew Moxom · Jun 12, 2007

Thomas, the base is indeed very different, and appears thinner due to it's inherent desire to curl. I agree that 35mm base should be thicker, but I do not know what MACO uses for their 35mm base, it could be one and the same. If I can get my negs flat within a day of processing, by leaving them pressed in my large book, then I will tolerate this film as the emulsion does appear to behave exactly like APX100 when souped in my favorite dev... Ultrafin. I will check them again tonight. One question I have is that if Agfa did make the actual emulsion for use by 'other' film makers, is there a good supply of this emulsion? I would hazard a guess to say that Rollei is taking a large risk getting into film at this point, and I wonder if the characteristics of this film will change when their supply of Agfa emulsion eventually dries up?

AgX · Jun 12, 2007

Andrew Moxom said:
One question I have is that if Agfa did make the actual emulsion for use by 'other' film makers, is there a good supply of this emulsion?

I can't imagine they ever sold their emulsion to others. For future projects, phone them... most realistically you won't get an answer on that. Agfa is the hard to asses player at the moment.

AgX · Jun 12, 2007

Andrew Moxom said:
I would hazard a guess to say that Rollei is taking a large risk getting into film at this point, and I wonder if the characteristics of this film will change when their supply of Agfa emulsion eventually dries up?

That whole business is risky... I'm quite sure nobody in that business has a crystal bowl.

I guess Maco makes the best of the situation by having film custom produced for them, cutting others into consumer sizes and even coating left-over emulsions; if! the latter should be the outcome of this thread.
Those quality issues, or surprises as indicated here are of course a different issue.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Jun 25, 2007

Alright, I've processed a roll of Retro 100 in 120, Rodinal 1+50 14m like I used to do for APX 100 and printed it on Kentmere Bromide G2.

Guys, this film, IS Agfa. Period. No doubts about it: the look, the grain, the tones, the brilliance, it's there.

I think the likeliest explanation is that the 120 was cut from master rolls who were meant to be used for 35mm.

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