Rodinal and Delta-100: Adjustment advice

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Max Power

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OK,
Today I decided to experiment with Rodinal and Delta-100. My usual combination is Delta-100 and ID-11 at 1+1 for the recommended 11mins. This consistently gives me excellent negatives.

I used Rodinal at 1+50 for the Ilford recommended time of 14mins. I bracketed my shots and in all cases, the 1-stop underexposed frame is the best. The other frames are the equivalent of about 1 and 2 stops overexposed respectively.

1. Am I correct in my assumption that because I get consistent exposures with D100 in ID-11, that my problem with the Rodinal is not overexposure, but rather overdevelopment?

2. Am I also correct in my understanding that 1 stop overdevelopment is roughly the equivalent of 1 min of dev time?

3. If the first two are correct, then I believe that I should develop my next roll of D-100 for about 13mins; would that be the next logical step in the experiment?

Anyone care to help me here?

Thanks a bunch,
Kent
 

kaiyen

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1 - I think it depends on what paramaters you are basing your evaluation on. In what way was the -1 exposure the "best?" In terms of shadows and highlights? Or just highlights? Do you have the shadow detail you want?

If you're shooting it at 100, and since Rodinal is generally not going to give you box speed, I'd bet that what is happening is that the underexposure in conjunction with your dev time resulted in acceptable highlights. However, I'd also bet that you aren't getting the shadow detail you want.

Similarly, the overexposed frames are probably sufficient in shadow detail, but you would've needed to decrease development time to compensate and control the highlights.

2 - I usually go with 15% increments when doign development testing. Maybe 20%. if the highlights are too bright, I decrease by 15%. I might even cut the roll in half and do one at 15% and another at 30%.

3 - depends on 1 and 2.

I hope that helps. I also hope I got it right...
allan
 
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From my experience, Rodinal does not give full film speed. I would expose the film as if it was an ISO50 film, and develop normal. Then adjust for the highlights.

- Thom
 

titrisol

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mmm you are seeing actually a "speed enhancement", since your underexposed frame is best. Are the highligths blocked in the other cases?

I'd say cut your dev time 15% or 2 minutes and reevaluate
 

Paul Howell

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What do you mean by 1 stop under is best? If you find best to have the shadow detail and highlights that you are looking for then your EI for you is 200 rather than 100. Exposure sets the shadow and development sets the highlights. If your best lacks the shadow detail then you need to increase exposure, if your highlights are blocked then you need to reduce the development time. If you dont have good shadow detail and have blocked hightlights then you need to start over.

Regards
 
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Max Power

Max Power

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Allan,
I think that you've nailed it...The shadow is acceptable in all of the frames, but in most cases, except for the underexposed frames, the highlights are lacking a good deal of detail.
I'm going to try this again at 15% less and see what I get.

Cheers all,
Kent
 

kaiyen

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Max Power said:
Allan,
I think that you've nailed it...The shadow is acceptable in all of the frames, but in most cases, except for the underexposed frames, the highlights are lacking a good deal of detail.
I'm going to try this again at 15% less and see what I get.

Cheers all,
Kent

Wow. You have adequate shadow detail with -1 exposure? I don't know how you managed to get EI200 out of Delta 100 in Rodinal, but more power to you :smile:.

allan
 

ElrodCod

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kaiyen said:
Wow. You have adequate shadow detail with -1 exposure? I don't know how you managed to get EI200 out of Delta 100 in Rodinal, but more power to you :smile:.

allan

Personal film speeds vary.it depends on the equipment. Meters can easily be off by a stop or more either way and the industry standards for shutter speeds are quite liberal. What matters is getting the detail in both the shadows and highlights.
 

modafoto

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titrisol said:
mmm you are seeing actually a "speed enhancement", since your underexposed frame is best. Are the highligths blocked in the other cases?

I'd say cut your dev time 15% or 2 minutes and reevaluate

I agree with this. I do a lot of Delta 100 (@100 ISO) in Rodinal 1+50 for 12 minutes opposed to the 14 minutes recommended. This gives smoother tones and nice highlights.

Morten
 
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Max Power

Max Power

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Morten,
I was hoping that you'd chime in on this...Cheers mate!
I will try 12mins.

Allan,
The frames at EI 200 are 'acceptable' insofar as with some work, I would be able to get something out of them, but they are far denser than anything that I get out of ID-11 at 1+1.

I will post my results later.

Kent
 

modafoto

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Max Power said:
Morten,
I was hoping that you'd chime in on this...Cheers mate!
I will try 12mins.

I'll chime in on anything that I can contribute to. And Rodinal and Delta 100 is certainlyone of the combos I have experience with, so count on me when it comes to the Hot Rod. :smile:

Morten
 

TPPhotog

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modafoto said:
I'll chime in on anything that I can contribute to. And Rodinal and Delta 100 is certainlyone of the combos I have experience with, so count on me when it comes to the Hot Rod. :smile:

Morten

We are going to have to lock Morten in a safe! If anything ever happens to him a wealth of knowldege concerning the sacred soup will be lost and Agfa will be doomed :wink:
 

Soeren

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Yeah and in Latex :D
Søren
 

TPPhotog

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Yep that way he can use her as a model in the safety of his studio :tongue:
 

modafoto

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TPPhotog said:
Yep that way he can use her as a model in the safety of his studio :tongue:

Thanks guys. I will order her right away....

Søren...remember the "Langt fra Las Vegas"-episode where Kenny is having the female bodyguard, Michelle?

Morten
 

modafoto

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TPPhotog said:
We are going to have to lock Morten in a safe! If anything ever happens to him a wealth of knowldege concerning the sacred soup will be lost and Agfa will be doomed :wink:

I have sent Agfa a notice about the church and they have responded to me. They are glad to see that their products can be used and appreciated. They have in fact invited me to visit them one day, so there might be a chance for european memebers of the COR to join me when I go there. Be sure to wear the lab coats with the COR sect logo :tongue:
 

Paul Howell

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Max Power said:
Allan,
I think that you've nailed it...The shadow is acceptable in all of the frames, but in most cases, except for the underexposed frames, the highlights are lacking a good deal of detail.
I'm going to try this again at 15% less and see what I get.

Cheers all,
Kent

You may want to shoot one long roll at your EI then cut the roll into 4 or 5 segments and develop each segment at -5, 10, 15, and 20% untill you get the highlight you are looking for.

Regards

Paul
 
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Max Power

Max Power

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I'm not so sure about this Rodinal stuff!

Well,
I shot a second roll of D-100 this morning in virtually the same conditions as yesterday: slightly overcast and lots of snow on the ground.

I bracketed all of my shots and souped the roll in Rodinal at 1+50 and 20C for 12:15 (a 20% decrease according to dev charts)...The frames with promise were those taken at an EI of 200. In these ones, there is good shadow detail, but the highlights are almost completely blown out. The frames shot at EIs of 100 and 50 are useless.

I've used D-100 in the same camera, using the same light meter, under the same conditions and used ID-11 at 1+1 with great success, so I'm confident that my equipment is OK.

Maybe D-100 just doesn't like Rodinal...I have some rolls of FP4 in the refrigerator, I think that I will try that.

Kent
 
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I just processed FP4 8x10 in Rodinal 1to50, 70 degrees at 10.30 minutes. It was right on to exposure. Have never tried delta 100 in rodinal. Xtol for me seems perfect for that film at 100 ASA. Good luck with your test.
 
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Max Power

Max Power

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Thanks for the time and temp advice Thomas. I'll give that a go.

Kent
 

jon koss

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Just wanted to do a sanity check here. Are your conclusions based on evaluation of prints or negs?

If negs, the snow/overcast conditions might make the negs hard to read versus a "normal" scene.

If prints, are you follwing a Min Time to Max Black regimen as a starting point at least? The reason for the question is that if your printing method has some sort of built-in compensation for your ID-11 process, then that compensation might not agree with the Rodinal process. A return to basics approach might ground things.

Finally, absolute shot in the dark, have there been any big changes in your photographic life since your last developing session in the ID-11? The reason for the question is that when relocating my darkroom, my thermometer fell on the concrete floor. It seemed OK so I used it next session. Well, it turned out that the dang thing was now reading 3 degrees warm and I ruined 9 rolls of film.

Hope some of this helps - if not feel free to ignore!

Jon

Max Power said:
Well,
I shot a second roll of D-100 this morning in virtually the same conditions as yesterday: slightly overcast and lots of snow on the ground.

I bracketed all of my shots and souped the roll in Rodinal at 1+50 and 20C for 12:15 (a 20% decrease according to dev charts)...The frames with promise were those taken at an EI of 200. In these ones, there is good shadow detail, but the highlights are almost completely blown out. The frames shot at EIs of 100 and 50 are useless.

I've used D-100 in the same camera, using the same light meter, under the same conditions and used ID-11 at 1+1 with great success, so I'm confident that my equipment is OK.

Maybe D-100 just doesn't like Rodinal...I have some rolls of FP4 in the refrigerator, I think that I will try that.

Kent
 
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Max Power

Max Power

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Hi Jon,
Thanks for the sanity check!

My conclusions are based on both negatives and prints. I compared negatives with other negs of D-100 in ID-11. I then did contact sheets using the same procedures as I always do.

Finally, I did some prints with some of the more promising negatives by printing for the shadows. I did neither burning nor dodging in order to get an 'honest' print.

Kent
 
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