Retail store no more XP2 in stock because their lab had problems with it?

[Ralf]

Hey all,

just went to my favourite retail store and they had the entire Ilford range of B&W films on sale (btw, displayed in the same fashion and amount like any other color film) except for XP2.

They said they don't have it anymore since it caused big trouble with their C41 development machines. I should buy a Kodak BW400CN instead, would be the same for me, but it runs fine through their machines.

Maybe someone could answer me the following questions:

1) How could XP2 cause problems in their lab but BW400CN works fine?

2) Is the BW400CN really the same? If I remember correctly, Kodak's B&W chromogenic was made to be printed on color paper, or was that a rumour? Haven't used anything but Ilford B&W film the past 15 years, so I have absolutely no experience with the Kodak stuff.

 

[Fotohuis]

The problem will not be the C41 process but for making a neutral print with RA-4 from an XP-2 negative.
For the lab the Kodak T400CN will be much easier in printing on RA-4 paper. But this film is a disaster when using classical B&W paper. XP2 prints very nice on the last one.

best regards,

Robert

(Tried both films on B&W photopaper and both films for making a neutral print with RA-4. I am using a Dunco II 67 CVC enlarger or split grade unit from Heiland)

 

[srs5694]

I think you need to get more details. From your description, it's unclear if they mean that the XP2 Super caused problems in the sense of ruining the chemistry, physically jamming the machine, producing poor color balance in prints, etc. The last of those is the most likely, since XP2 Super lacks the orange color mask that's used on (AFAIK) all other C-41 films. Thus, a minilab machine that's not calibrated to handle it will produce odd color effects. By contrast, Kodak's C-41 B&W films have an orange color mask and so will be easier to print on machines that assume the presence of this mask.

That said, it is possible to get neutral (or at least near-neutral) prints from XP2 Super on at least some minilab machines. I took a roll of XP2 Super to my local Walgreens a couple of months ago. They ran it through a Fuji Frontier machine and gave me prints that, by themselves, look fairly neutral. Next to prints on true B&W paper, the Frontier prints from XP2 Super have a slightly magenta cast, but I suspect that was a matter of the chemistry or temperature being a bit off that day. (This was a Walgreens drug store, after all, not a pro lab.)

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

The problem will not be the C41 process but for making a neutral print with RA-4 from an XP-2 negative.
For the lab the Kodak T400CN will be much easier in printing on RA-4 paper. But this film is a disaster when using classical B&W paper. XP2 prints very nice on the last one.

best regards,

Robert

(Tried both films on B&W photopaper and both films for making a neutral print with RA-4. I am using a Dunco II 67 CVC enlarger or split grade unit from Heiland)

I have shot Kodak T400CN extensively, in 35mm AND 2 1/4, and it prints beautifully if slowly on b/w vc fiber papers.

I can't really comment on XP2 Super, since the last time I used any flavor of XP2, it was a fairly new emulsion and it was prone to pinholes. The T400CN did not do this, so I switched to it instead.

 

[dolande]

Related thread
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Regards

Rafael

 

[eddym]

I've used XP2 Super for many years, and have had no problem with getting neutral prints on RA4 paper from my local pro lab. Of course, I get much better prints in my own darkroom on FB paper. The only problem I have had from the pro lab is that sometimes the negatives have some small specks of crud in the emulsion, which I would assume came off their processor's rollers. I haven't seen it on color C41 film, but I have seen it on XP2.

--Eddy

 

[Dave Parker]

Alls I can say after many years of working in labs, the machine don't give a rip on what film is sent through it, sounds like they are filling you mind with BS, that machine don't give a rip at all what type of film is sent in the feeder..


You are getting jerked around XP2 is a C41 film and works just fine in C41 chemistry..

What a horse Crook!

R.

 

[Samuel B]

The XP-2 has no ill effect on the film processor. What they might mean is that the Kodak CN400 prints better than the XP-2 on their equipment because of the orange mask. If they are using a digital lab, the CN400 prints better because of this, and if they are using an analog lab CN 400 will also print more consistently on colour paper. Of course for printing on to B&W paper the XP-2 is preferable.

 

[JBrunner]

You can feed any emulsion into a processing machine. Your e6 and B&W may not turn out turn out that well in C41 (or maybe you'll get something really interesting), but the machine doesn't care. Sounds like they don't like to print it, or the machine malfunctioned and ate a couple of rolls that happened to be XP2 therefore "XP2 is a problem" or they have some reason to need to push the NC on people. (which is a good film too, but you should have the choice)
If it will go through a camera, it will go through the machine.

 

[kunihiko]

In Tokyo, Yodobashi camera is the biggest retailer. They do refuse to process XP-2 super with a Fuji machine in their lab. Far as I've heard from a guy in the shop, Fuji told them not to run XP-2. When they recieve XP-2, they sent it to Kodak lab to process. It takes a day or two.
At that time I needed one hour DPE. That's why I shot chromogenic. So I brought my film to another mini lab, they process it with their Fuji machine and I got decent prints on color papers

 

[Roger Hicks]

You can feed any emulsion into a processing machine. . . .
If it will go through a camera, it will go through the machine.

Yes, but the emulsion may come off. I REALLYwouldn't put B+W through hot C41 unless I KNEW it wouldn't cause any problems. Maybe some modern B+W emulsions would be OK but I'd be really nervous with some of the older ones.

Also, as conventional B+W would come out clear, there'd not be much point.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[JBrunner]

Yes, but the emulsion may come off. I REALLYwouldn't put B+W through hot C41 unless I KNEW it wouldn't cause any problems. Maybe some modern B+W emulsions would be OK but I'd be really nervous with some of the older ones.

Also, as conventional B+W would come out clear, there'd not be much point.

Cheers,

Roger

Hmmm ... you may have missed my point, and taken it literally..... Oh well.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Hmmm ... you may have missed my point, and taken it literally..... Oh well.

Sorry; must have read it too quickly. But on the bright side, if I did, someone else might have too.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[JBrunner]

Sorry; must have read it too quickly. But on the bright side, if I did, someone else might have too.

Cheers,

Roger

Or I didn't write it well enough,,, you know, with clarity. Hmmmm gotta get me some of that.

 

[Ralf]

Thank you all for the interesting information.

I guess it's right to assume they simply had problems producing consistent color balance in prints, though I wonder how an operator of a fully digital machine would have problems making black & white prints. They even offer this option for color film.

Anyway, I would always make the final print manually on black & white paper myself. I simply thought having them make quick prints of all negs would be a convenient alternative to a classic contact print in order to choose the best negs which to enlarge to a final print. So even if their prints do have an off color, it's no big deal since I would never use them as a final print.

Regarding XP2 and CN400, it seems XP2 would be the better (easier?) choice for me when it comes to making final prints on black & white paper, thanks for all the info on that. I never enlarged or developed any color film myself, and your posts sound like the XP2 negs will be easier for me to handle. I bought a few rolls of the Kodak though, why not give it a try, even if I'm an Ilford enthusiast

 

[srs5694]

Regarding XP2 and CN400, it seems XP2 would be the better (easier?) choice for me when it comes to making final prints on black & white paper, thanks for all the info on that. I never enlarged or developed any color film myself, and your posts sound like the XP2 negs will be easier for me to handle. I bought a few rolls of the Kodak though, why not give it a try, even if I'm an Ilford enthusiast

When you print a Kodak C-41 B&W negative, you'll almost certainly have to lengthen your exposure time substantially compared to what you're used to (about 1-3 stops), and you might need to use paper that's a grade or two higher in contrast than you're used to (or adjust your VC filtration appropriately). Some people aren't at all satisfied with traditional B&W prints from these films; others say such prints are just fine, aside from the exposure and grade/filtration differences. I don't know if this reflects differing fussiness/standards or if it's a question of the film working well with some scenes, equipment, or papers but not with others. Personally, I'm satisfied with the results of such prints on Agfa MCP 310 RC paper made with a Philips PCS130 enlarger with PCS150 light source. I'm not a professional photographer, though, so it could just be that my standards aren't high enough.

In any event, it's certainly worth giving it a try. The worst-case scenario is that you won't like the film.