Recommend me a 120 folder

j-dogg · Mar 16, 2012

Things I like:

Sharp lens, 75mm-100mm would be sufficient. I shoot mainly 35mm and 36x24mm digital (full-frame as the digisnappers call it)

Can attach a strap

Easy to load

Built in light-meter is a plus but without it I could survive (or purchase that Luna Pro I always wanted)

Copal shutter is a plus

German is a plus (AGFA made one of these if memory serves me correct)

Light seals aren't impossible to replace

Under $500 / can be found on eBay and other places in decent shape

....and go

P C Headland · Mar 16, 2012

If you want a light meter & coupled rangefinder, then the most easily obtained option for an old folder would be a Super Ikonta BX. Rarer, but with a lens that is as good if not better, would be an Iskra II - but it is more than likely that the meter is not working.

If you want to spend quite a bit more money, and have a good deal of patience, you might find a working Agfa Automatic 66.

Drop the meter requirements, and you'll have a wider choice of coupled rangefinder folders - Super Ikontas, Certo Six / 6, Agfa Super Isolette, Balda Super, etc., plus non-German ones like the Mamiya 6 / Six, Iskra, & Super Fujica-6.

Of those listed above, I reckon the Certo Six has the best lens, whereas I prefer the handling and viewfinder of the Iskra.

Ian Grant · Mar 16, 2012

Well for way under your $500 budget (actually £30 -$48)I recently bought a very nice Ensign Selfix 820 with a coated Ross Xpress f3.8 105mm lens, in an Epsilon shutter. This shoot's either 8 - 6x9 or 12 6x6 with built in masks. 6x9 is the same format ratio as 35mm's 24x36mm and a nice large neg.

Not German but just as well made and plenty around at similar prices some with rangefinders

Ian

Jesper · Mar 16, 2012

You could try a Moscow.
No meter, but cheap and not that bad (I have a Moscow 5).

With a folder You will always have smiling people around you.

Bill Burk · Mar 16, 2012

I'd recommend looking for a 6x9 - Format similar to 35mm and wow, almost half a sheet of 4x5.

I occasionally have annoying dust on my negs (clear spots on negs/black on prints).

Also I occasionally get a good amount of flare which I am starting to enjoy in B&W.

fotch · Mar 16, 2012

How about a Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta BX, 533/16 6x6 on 120 roll film + Leather case.

Very good condition. Some paint missing on hinge. 6x6 format on 120. Superb photo machine, beautiful lens. Purchase from a retired neighbor from Germany. I use to have the instruction manual, will look for it.

I only shot a couple of rolls through this fine camera, very impressed with the sharpness of the photos. Meter doesn't work or I don't know how to use it. Never mattered to me, I always use my hand held meter

I have not used the camera for many years, everything seems to work (except meter), however, do to its age, it may need a clean, lube, adjust by a qualified camera technician.

dnjl · Mar 16, 2012

The Zeiss Super Ikonta BX 533/16 is probably the pinnacle of 120 folder design (save for the more recent Fuji/Voigtlander). The 532/16 is the same but without the bulky light meter on top.

Nick Merritt · Mar 16, 2012

I'm not sure there are any folders that have strap lugs -- all seem to have been sold with a case that had a strap. So that's a problem right there. I also don't think you'll find a German folder with a Copal shutter, since that's Japanese. Compur or Prontor variants are what you'll get (and these are excellent). Buy the Luna Pro and enjoy it; forget the in-camera meter.

Take a look here and see if anything catches your fancy: www.certo6.com Very informative site. He likes the Agfas too -- and will provide you a fully refurbed one if you like. The Super Ikontas are great, but have some quirks (film spacing); the Certo Six is a very nice camera also. Maybe you can find a Bessa II with the Heliar within your budget also.

nsurit · Mar 16, 2012

Voigtlander Bessa II might be worth putting on your possibility list. 6X9 format which is what you are currently shooting. For a good bit less you should be able to find a Bessa RF. Bill Barber

Brian Legge · Mar 16, 2012

Super Isolette / Super Speedex is an option in that range, as is the Super Ikonta III / IV.

All are excellent I'd you want a coupled rangefinder. If you can make due without one there are much cheaper options out there.

Mainecoonmaniac · Mar 16, 2012

I love my Zeiss Super Ikonta IV.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zeiss-Super...inder-6x6-/280844957460?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras

Peltigera · Mar 16, 2012

My favourite folder is a Zeiss Ikon Nettar 515 (1937 variety but you can get them from the 1950s) - 6x4.5 negatives, Prontor shutter, Novar lens (excellent if stopped down to f8), pocket sized. Mine cost £15.00 or $25.00(ish). No meter but if the meter is not TTL you are better off with a hand-held meter anyway.

Ian Grant · Mar 16, 2012

I've had issues with two or three pr-WWII Zeiss lenses which are soft and flat, the glass used for a short time in the 30's-early 40's in a few Zeiss lensesseems to age badly, two were Novar's the other a Tessar.

Ian

j-dogg · Mar 16, 2012

waltereegho said:
The Zeiss Super Ikonta BX 533/16 is probably the pinnacle of 120 folder design (save for the more recent Fuji/Voigtlander). The 532/16 is the same but without the bulky light meter on top.

Seen a lot of suggestions for this. Light-meter isn't a must, my Canon 5D seems to be rather accurate and it's the benchmark for everything I purchase analog.

fotographist · Mar 17, 2012

I second the Zeiss Ikon 532/16. It's a 6x6 with a beautiful 80mm f/2.8 lens. It's relatively small because it doesn't have the bulky meter. It does have strap lugs, but most sellers also
usually supply the leather case which has a neckstrap. This model has a Synchro-Compur x-synced shutter which is excellent...good for years of accurate service. This is the camera on which I learned photography in the 60's...my grandfather had one. I just purchased one this week for $270 on Ebay from Koh's Cameras in New York and it is a GEM! German engineering at it's best!

Richard S. (rich815) · Mar 17, 2012

Certo Super Sport Dolly with Tessar lens

Wade D · Mar 17, 2012

If you forgo the meter and rangefinder the Agfa Isolette is a nice little camera. I bought mine 2 years ago for $40 with new bellows and love it. It produces very good 6x6 negatives and fits in a coat pocket. For 6x9 I use a Certo Certix circa 1936. Again no meter or rangefinder but it makes very nice images. Both have limited shutter speeds and the lenses are quite sharp. Also both were a cheap and good way to get into medium format.

Newt_on_Swings · Mar 17, 2012

My Super Ikonta IV is beautiful. I need to get it serviced though, stiff i mean really stiff focusing and a bit of fungus in the lens =[

jnoir · Mar 19, 2012

I do love old folders and use them regularly (just today I shot a couple of rolls with an Agfa Isolette III and a Mamiya Six). The Mamiya is, incidentally, one of the few folders that I know of with strap lugs. Some folders have a hand strap on one side, but most of them are designed to be used with the case.

I do not really fancy Zeiss glass on these folders, and I like the performance of Schneider-Kreuznach best. I have the Super Ikonta in 6x6 and 6x4.5 format and are great cameras, but for color work I'd never use them.

As others have mentioned, the choice of folders with lightmeter are pretty limited (I may add the Franka Solida IIL, I think it has not been mentioned). And chances are that it will not work (being exctintion meters, most of them do not have enough selenium left in the cells to provide an accurate reading, or even a reading at all). But dropping that requirement expands the possibilities.

Some top-of-the-range names I can't avoid mentioning are:

In 6x9:
- Bessa RF or Bessa II with 5-element Heliar lens
- Plaubel Makina IIIR, actually a press camera with interchangeable lenses and backs
- Balda Super Pontura (rare but worth it if you can find a good one, I have it with a Xenar lens)
- Ensign 8-20

In 6x6:
- Agfa Super Isolette
- Ensign 12-20 Special (uncoupled rangefinder, the coupled RF versions are rarer and always command higher prices)
- Mamiya Six with 4-elements D. Zuiko lens (not German, but one of the cameras I like best)
- Franka Solida IIIE with 3-elements S-K Radionar lens (probably the cheapest of them all, but I like it a lot, Radionar is one of my favorite triplets)

In 6x4.5:
- Ensign 16-20 (I have an AutoRange, coupled RF, and is great)

In addition, the Welta Weltur may qualify in any of the categories, since there were different versions made. I have the 6x4.5 one with Xenar, and is an excellent camera.

There are multiple other options out there equally capable (Perkeo IIE, Welta Weltax and Agfa Record III are some names that come to mind) but if I were to choose only one (which I can't), I'd start with the list above.

Klainmeister · Mar 19, 2012

Go Bessa II with either the Color-Skopar or the Heliar lens. I have shot nearly all the cameras listed here, and this by far was the best performer with the Zeiss Super Ikonta close behind. The 6x9 negs are to die for.

Paul Goutiere · Mar 19, 2012

Super Ikonta B. Coated Tessar no meter.

Acceptable at f2.8, great at f5.6, f8 and f11 superb.

DavidM · Mar 19, 2012

I have purchased a couple of 120 folders from Jurgen Kreckel - his web site is - http://www.certo6.com/
He has his current offering on ebay but you can put in a special request - i have done this twice to get the model i wanted with the lens, shutter coloured leather cover and new bellows combinaion.
As for lugs for a strap i use the leatgher ever/never ready cases that were available for these cameras and cut off the front flap so that it is ever ready.
Happy shooting

removed account4 · Mar 19, 2012

hey j-dogg

i'd suggest a mamiya 6
http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Mamiya_Six
probably one of the best folding 6x6 cameras ever made
i have had 2 of them and sold them to someone here on apug a few months ago ... and i miss that camera dearly ...
they are kind of a rare beast

i would like to add "buy/use at your own risk" from certo6 ...
some people have had excellent luck with him and other ( you don't have to look far ) have not.

rather than pollute your thread i will just say that ...

good luck !
john

noll · Mar 20, 2012

The only one I've chanced upon was the Ikonta 523/16 with 3.5 Opton Tessar. Only $50 at a thrift store, slow shutter speeds were off, and had a couple pinholes in the bellows, but a truly phenomenal lens - I hear they're not common, or commonly sought after, but it still works great with print film and blows away my dslr. If you have large pockets, it's just as - if not more - portable than your average 35mm slr.

Good luck on whatever you find!

Ian Grant · Mar 20, 2012

Welcome to APUG.

I think the Ikonta 523/16 is a fairly common camera but you have a decent lens on it. My own Ikonta a pre WWII 645 model has a Novar that's unusable , however I picked up a mint post WWII Novar that will fit the Compur and after about 10 yeras I'll have a camera that will be usable

These 645 Folders are the most compact, and it's great to have 16 frames per film compared to my other 6x9 camera with only 8

Ian

Recommend me a 120 folder

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