re-using film developer

dainmcgowan · Jun 23, 2009

As i am new to developing film i have only had 1 roll at a time to process.
I read that mixed developer will only keep for 24 hours, so each time i have thrown it away after the 1st use.

Now i have a roll of T-Max 100 and a roll of T-Max 400 to develop, and i use a tank for a single roll.
Can i store the developer (T-Max developer) until after i have fixed and washed the 1st film, and then re-use it without risk to the 2nd roll??
If yes, for furure reference, what would be the limit, could i go a 3rd or 4th time??

thanx in advance
Dain

Jeff Kubach · Jun 23, 2009

I was told that T-Max developer was only good one time only. I never tried more than once so I'm not real sure.

Jeff

RobertV · Jun 23, 2009

You're normally work with a stock solution of developer. This developer you're going to dilute just before using it.

The stock solution you can keep longer (depending of type developer 3 months till 10 years) but the diluted developer can already degrade within a few hours.

Maybe interesting to give some more details about the developer YOU are using with your Tmax films.

Best regards,

Robert

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 23, 2009

It depends a bit on the developer. Generally, stock solutions of photographic developers are used if you intend to re-use them, and only some are usable that way. I know D76 and Xtol works wonderfully like this, and if you replenish with a small amount of fresh concentrate for every roll (for Xtol it's 70ml) you get a seasoned developer, which I much prefer over the completely fresh stuff.

Page 2 of Kodak's data sheet for Tmax developer tells you how to replenish it for consistent results.

Every time you use your concentrate you decimate its capacity, which is why you want to replenish. It's a great way of developing film.

- Thomas

RobertV · Jun 23, 2009

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j86/j86.pdf

Here is your Tmax data sheet.
You have a T max replenishment and non replenishment version. But also with the non-replenishment version you could do with some compensating time more rolls. However the "one shot" method is more accurate and is often used in small tank systems.

I am not a user of Kodak produkts (neither Tmax) so I have to go in detail for this data sheet too.

steven_e007 · Jun 23, 2009

Years ago I used to mix a stock solution (usually an Ilford developer for me, ID-11, Microphen or Perceptol) and everytime I developed a film in it I used the compensating times given in the instructions. I think you added 10% for every 35mm film, or something. It sort of worked, but was never very consistant - especially after half a dozen films and a variable storage time.

Now I dilute the stock 1 + 1 or 1 + 3, use it as a one shot and throw it away. I still have a can of Tetenal 'developer preserver' - an aerosol of oxygen free gas that you displace the air in the stock bottle with to stop oxidation (Where will I replace this when it is empty?!) This gave me pretty excellent consistancy, although of course the characteristic of the developer changes with dilution, so you have to pretend this is what you really wanted all along

Otherwide convince yourself that Rodinal gives you exactly the effect you want. This is cheap, lasts for years without oxidising and is always used one shot; so it is very consistant.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 23, 2009

I'm going to make one more plug for replenished developer. There are some benefits, which I will list below, I'll use Kodak Xtol as an example:

1. A 5 liter packet (cheap shipping) is $9.19 at Freestyle. You get 72 rolls out of one package, $9.19 divided by 72 means you're using developer worth about 12.76 cents per roll. It's dirt cheap to process film this way.

2. Consistency. The developer working solution, as long as you don't let it sit for months, has a predictable level of activity.

3. Nice negatives! I believe that the byproducts from running film through the solution (bromide, for example) is good for the process. Compared to straight Xtol it gives me tonality that is more interesting in the highlights with better 'modulation' right at the high end - i.e. in my mind the highlights just look better.

Process: Start with a working solution of straight Xtol (Or Tmax RS) stock solution volume that is larger than your largest tank. You want a bottle that is completely full, by the way. I use a 2 liter working solution. Then process a couple of unimportant rolls first, to season the developer. With each roll of film you develop (120, 36exp 35mm, or 8x10 sheet equivalent) you add 70ml fresh stock solution, called 'replenisher'. The replenisher is best stored in collapsible bottles so that you can eliminate air pockets that oxidize the solution while in storage.
After you're through with your processing cycle, pour the fresh replenisher into the bottle that normally contains your working solution, then top it up with what you used in your developing tank. Whatever is left over you discard.

It's a fabulous way of processing film. It works really well, and it's easy.

- Thomas

j-fr · Jun 23, 2009

100 ml instead of 70

Thomas Bertilsson said:
With each roll of film you develop (120, 36exp 35mm, or 8x10 sheet equivalent) you add 70ml fresh stock solution, called 'replenisher'.

- Thomas

A very fine description - just one remark: I have found that 100 ml is better than 70. With 70 ml the developer seems to loose a little of its strength.
With 100 ml you can keep it constant for years, providing, of course, that it is stored in a completely full bottle.

j-fr

www.j-fr.dk

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 23, 2009

j-fr,

I wonder if that isn't individual. Kodak mentions to use the least amount of chemistry to replenish with and keep the process constant. It could be 50, 70, 85, or 100ml. I'd imagine it depends upon how you expose your film a little bit too, how much silver needs to be developed. I use a condenser enlarger, which means I need a bit less contrast in the negative, so I reduce development about 20% compared to most published times I see. That could account for the difference between our findings.
But my replenished solution is not very old, so I may find down the road that I need to increase the level of replenished solution.

That's an important point you brought up. Thanks for pointing it out!

j-fr said:
A very fine description - just one remark: I have found that 100 ml is better than 70. With 70 ml the developer seems to loose a little of its strength.
With 100 ml you can keep it constant for years, providing, of course, that it is stored in a completely full bottle.

j-fr

www.j-fr.dk

sidearm613 · Jun 23, 2009

dainmcgowan said:
As i am new to developing film i have only had 1 roll at a time to process.
I read that mixed developer will only keep for 24 hours, so each time i have thrown it away after the 1st use.

Now i have a roll of T-Max 100 and a roll of T-Max 400 to develop, and i use a tank for a single roll.
Can i store the developer (T-Max developer) until after i have fixed and washed the 1st film, and then re-use it without risk to the 2nd roll??
If yes, for furure reference, what would be the limit, could i go a 3rd or 4th time??

thanx in advance
Dain

Once you have diluted the liquid concentrate you shorten the lifespan of the developer before the agent oxidizes. Kodak sell T-Max RS to replenish the original dev, and theoretically, you can keep replenishing for quite some time, however, at some point I would guess it would be time to trash the dev.

My two cents, I never reuse developer. I mix right before I develop and then dump my soup. This can get pricey for you because T-Max is expensive used one shot. Still, I soup in either Rodinal or WD2D+, always one shot (not like I have a choice with those two developers) Still, I have never used T-Max dev, so YMMV, but hey, experiment and tell us all your results.

Thomas Bertilsson · Jun 23, 2009

sidearm613 said:
Kodak sell T-Max RS to replenish the original dev, and theoretically, you can keep replenishing for quite some time, however, at some point I would guess it would be time to trash the dev.

I'm not sure about Tmax RS as I haven't used it either, but with Xtol you can go perpetually with the same replenished batch as long as you care not to get it contaminated. There really is no end to it where it dies.

removed account4 · Jun 23, 2009

Thomas Bertilsson said:
I'm not sure about Tmax RS as I haven't used it either, but with Xtol you can go perpetually with the same replenished batch as long as you care not to get it contaminated. There really is no end to it where it dies.

when i was replenishing dk50,
it had a certain lifespan. i think it was at 800 sheets of 5x7 film
then i mixed another tank
( saved about 1/3 the dead-tank to mellow the developer and poured the new stuff right in )

800 sheets of 5x7 film is a lot of rolls of 35mm film

replenishment is a great way to go, as long as
the "replenisher" doesn't go bad .. make sure if you
are using stock solution as your replenisher, you test IT
from time to time to make sure it dosen't "86" on you ...

have fun

Sirius Glass · Jun 23, 2009

Thomas Bertilsson said:
I know D76 and Xtol works wonderfully like this, and if you replenish with a small amount of fresh concentrate for every roll (for Xtol it's 70ml) you get a seasoned developer, which I much prefer over the completely fresh stuff.

XTOL works very well when reusing. Just follow the instructions.

Steve

gainer · Jun 23, 2009

If you're game for a little mixing that's not out of a box, here is a developer formula that can be reused without replenishment for at least 10 rolls per liter.

Order from Photographers Formulary 1 liter of propylene glycol, 10 grams of Phenidone, and a pound of borax. Get a pound or so of ascorbic acid powder (Vitamin C) from the formulary or www.chemistrystore.com. It need be only technical grade if that makes it cheaper.

Mix the phenidone with the glycol. Use the bottle the glycol comes in and mark it "1% Phenidone". Crush the borax if necessary so you can get it into an empty, rinsed, 2-liter soft drink bottle. Fill the bottle with distilled or demineralized water, shake it around for a while and let it stand. It will not all dissolve, but will form a saturated solution. Keep it at the temperature you will use for development. Decant 800 ml of the borax, leaving the solid behind, add 1/2 level tablespoon (6 grams) of ascorbic acid powder and 15 ml (1 tablespoon) of the Phenidone solution. Stir it up and bring the level up to 1 liter.

Developing times will be about the same as for D-76, at least until you "develop" your own tastes. This developer can be reused because it has no sulfite, is not much affected by bromide, and the Phenidone is replenished by the ascorbate formed by the interaction of Phenidone and ascorbic acid. This ascorbate is present in very much higher concentration than is needed for 1 roll of film. So, when you are through with one session, pour the deeloper back into the bottle.

There are those who will tell you that this cannot be a fine-grain developer, and if it is, it must not be a sharp developer, and if you don't weigh the components to the milligram it will not be consistent from one batch to the next. Make up your own mind after you try it.

gainer · Jun 23, 2009

PS:
I call this SPF-3 for "Save Photographers Formulary 3". It uses about as much borax as can be used in one liter.

j-fr · Jun 23, 2009

Thomas Bertilsson said:
j-fr,

I wonder if that isn't individual. Kodak mentions to use the least amount of chemistry to replenish with and keep the process constant. It could be 50, 70, 85, or 100ml. I'd imagine it depends upon how you expose your film a little bit too, how much silver needs to be developed. I use a condenser enlarger, which means I need a bit less contrast in the negative, so I reduce development about 20% compared to most published times I see. That could account for the difference between our findings.
But my replenished solution is not very old, so I may find down the road that I need to increase the level of replenished solution.

That's an important point you brought up. Thanks for pointing it out!

Important and complicated. I think a masters degree in chemistry is needed if you really want to work with a replenished developer. I remember from back in times how much meassuring and checking it took to keep the E-6 color developer in perfect working condition, and even though a black & white developer is less complicated, I still feel like I'm keeping a fragile organism alive.

One thing is how much new stuff you have to add to the developer. Quite another matter is how much the levels of residual bromide and other stuff is building up in the developer. I don't like to think too much about it - I just know that I have now used the same replenished solution for more than two years. As long as my densitometer tells me that I get excatly the expected negative densities I won't complain.

j-fr

www.j-fr.dk

sidearm613 · Jun 26, 2009

jnanian said:
when i was replenishing dk50,
it had a certain lifespan. i think it was at 800 sheets of 5x7 film
then i mixed another tank
( saved about 1/3 the dead-tank to mellow the developer and poured the new stuff right in )

800 sheets of 5x7 film is a lot of rolls of 35mm film

replenishment is a great way to go, as long as
the "replenisher" doesn't go bad .. make sure if you
are using stock solution as your replenisher, you test IT
from time to time to make sure it dosen't "86" on you ...

have fun

John,
what did you think of dk-50? I have never used it, or ever heard much about it. What type results did it produce?

dainmcgowan · Jun 27, 2009

thanks for all the input guys.

i am thinking about switching to HC-110 as a cheaper 1 shot developer.

i was hoping t-max developer would give me at least a couple of rolls with consistent results.

cheers
Dain

MikeSeb · Jun 27, 2009

Tmax is an excellent but underrated developer. The only knock against it is that it's more expensive than nearly all the others.

Anscojohn · Jun 27, 2009

I have used D23 replenished with DK25R for several decades now. It works fine. ca. 20 rolls of 80 sq inches of film per liter. KISS.

re-using film developer

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