Quantity accuracy for powder developers

[hoffy]

I read on the box for ID-11, that when mixing the developer up, the whole quantity of powder should be used at once and the whole batch should be made up.

Since the 4 litre pack is only marginally more expensive then the 1 litre pack, I have been tempted in buying the bigger quantity, but only mixing 1 litre's worth at a time.

If I were to do that, how accurate should I be? Do I need to measure the different powders to the closest gram, or is close enough good enough? How should I be storing the rest of the powder (I.E., does it need to be re-sealed into foil bags? Are Zip lock bags good enough)?

Any thoughts or advice on the above is welcome!

Cheers

 

[wclark5179]

I recommend mixing the entire contents of the box. I store my stock solutions in empty 2 liter soda bottles. I keep them under a sink in a cupboard with doors so as they aren't exposed to constant light and whilst inside the cupboard fairly constant temps. The cap on a 2 liter soda bottle seals really well over and over again and again. I have 2 year old stock ID-11 that still works just fine. I find that the 2 liter soda bottles stay sealed after each use. I found that other bottles were not very good at keeping the cap sealed letting in air from the atmosphere.

Just my 2 cents. Hope it helps you.

 

[bdial]

It's not a good idea, there are many long threads on the subject. The basic problem is that the distribution of the components are random in the powder, so you can't guarantee that the all the proportions are right once you divide it.

As wclark5179 says, if you fill convienient sized bottles to the brim, and store them away, most developers will keep for a good long while until they are opened again. Glass is best for this, and soda bottles work well for plastic, as they are meant to limit gas transfer.

 

[Murray Kelly]

The other thing to do is use smaller PETE (recyclable '1') bottles and put 'Glad' wrap under the screw caps - it seals better than than the lids which are usually some other kind of inferior plastic.
I have been guilty of giving the powder a jolly good stir and mixing smaller quantities (after weighing the total, first, and noting it on the pack) and rolling up the pack with what's left and clipping it closed tight with a paper clamp. Leave it in the back of the freezer until required. This is not the recommended way, but so far so good for my Diafine.
The separate bottles filled to the very top works really well, of course.
Always check with a tongue of film before committing a roll to any newly opened bottle whatever way you chose if it's any time since you last used it. 'Measure twice and cut once'.
Whatever way you go I have never had a problem storing mixed developer in the fridge but allow it to get to room temp in plenty of time in case some chemicals decide to precipitate out - they will redissolve in my experience. You will see a cloudiness if they do - just wait.
Another way for Oz is to put the whole mix in a cask liner and exclude all the air. Works a treat. I keep a lot of bulk chems like that.
Have fun.
Murray

 

[keithwms]

I also buy the big mixes and mix it all at once and just store it. I have had no issues with storing ID11 for *long* periods.... months and months and months.

For mixing, I recommend getting an oversize glass bottle, I have a really huge one, 20 gal or so. If you mix in that, you can jiggle the bottle very violently and 'roll' it and you'll get the developer mixed in nothing flat. First time I realized this, I wanted to smack myself on the head for fussing with small containers for so long.

I did do partial mixes (splitting up the powder) and I had no issues... and I do this with c41 chems too, but.... bear in mind that I have an accurate electronic balance. Anyway I expect that you could be off 5-10% on the ID11 mix and see no ill effect. You're not going to use the dev in high dilution like Rodinal anyway....

 

[fschifano]

Not a good idea for all the reasons bdial noted and more. Once the package is opened, you've exposed the powder to oxygen. Not good. It will oxidize.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

If you want to make smaller quantities, consider mixing from bulk chemicals. Then you can make whatever you want in whatever quantities are convenient for you whenever you need it.

 

[PhotoJim]

What David said. That way you can mix up 100 mL, 300 litres, or whatever you want. The bulk chemicals have shelf lives measured in years to decades.

 

[hoffy]

OK, define a "long time" for storage? Would 12 months be out of the question?

 

[fschifano]

Kodak says 6 months in completely full and well stoppered bottles, 2 months in a 1/2 full bottle. My experience says it can last longer than that, but I would not count on it. The developer doesn't "drop dead" after the expiration date is reached. The activity tends to trail off slowly and it's hard to pin down exactly when a little turns into something significant.

Sorry this started out as something about ID-11, not D-76. In any case, they behave the same, and I believe Ilford's recommendations are the same for completely full containers, but only 1 month for 1/2 full containers.

 

[ricksplace]

I have used 12 month old D76 stored in a full well stoppered glass bottle. It worked fine.

 

[Viggi]

I mixed a stock solution of ID11 (1 litre), developed one film, and then left it in a container/bottle, with a rubber seal, for 3+ months. Since the bottle isn't quite full, I imagine the stock solution isn't usable any more. I have quite a few films to develop over the next 2-4 weeks (mainly fp4 and hp5), so I'll need to mix up a stock solution and store in small soda bottles. What about non-powder developers (like DDX)? Can I just pour off what I need each time, screw the cap back on, and store until I develop my next film? Or is it the same as with the powders - once you open, you mix the entire contents, and then store the stock solution? Thanks

 

[wclark5179]

With liquids (like DDX) I treat them like stock, I pour out what I need, mix it up as working solution, and put the cap back on the stock bottle and under the sink it goes!

 

[Keith Tapscott.]

I read on the box for ID-11, that when mixing the developer up, the whole quantity of powder should be used at once and the whole batch should be made up.

Since the 4 litre pack is only marginally more expensive then the 1 litre pack, I have been tempted in buying the bigger quantity, but only mixing 1 litre's worth at a time.

Cheers

Don`t, it`s a recipe for disaster. If it`s too much for you, consider using a liquid one-shot developer like Tetenal Ultrafin or Paterson Aculux instead.

 

[hoffy]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Just one more question, when mixing the solutions, how accurate do I need to be with the actual amount of water? Would 10ml out (with 4L of water) cause much of an issue (I am thinking worse case scenario, using the 600ml graduates that I have)

Cheers

 

[Denis K]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Just one more question, when mixing the solutions, how accurate do I need to be with the actual amount of water? Would 10ml out (with 4L of water) cause much of an issue (I am thinking worse case scenario, using the 600ml graduates that I have)

Cheers

When you look at the formulas for a lot of the public domain developers you will find that most of the chemicals are listed with quantities that end in zero (e.g. 250 ml, or 120 ml.) This probably implies that in arriving at the formula, the designers trial adjusted many of the chemical compositions in at best +/- 10% treatments. If you were 10 ml off in 4000 ml that would represent a 0.25% error. IMO, that's nothing that should keep you awake at night.

Denis K

 

[hoffy]

Thats what I thought. Just thought I'd double check, thats all!