Quality and stability of E-6 films from 3-bath kits

[konakoa]

TLDR; will colors last and be stable with a three bath kit? Yes, I've read the sticky thread and I don't have a clear consensus on this.




I’ve fooled off and on with color transparency films for decades. Nearly all professionally processed by labs, as it made the most sense and was convenient. Yet all my work now is large format sheet film, and labs that process those are few and far between. For my favorite 5x7 sheet, labs are even rarer.

The long delays to ship, some question if the films get damaged or lost in transit, and much higher lab fees have me processing at home now. I invested in a really, really nice fully automatic Dev.A machine for its precision and repeatability. It’ll always process the film the exact same way every time, unlike if I were hand processing color E-6 in a sink (done that off and on for years).

I'm committed to processing E-6 myself and chemistry is where I am a bit uncertain now. Color transparency film ain’t cheap. As I write this in 2025 large format films are $8-$20 for a single sheet depending on the size. Ain’t cheap at all. So it stands to reason to process it right and process it well because I’d like for the films to last as long as possible.

And that brings me to the chemistry. I want to use full size six bath kits, as those supposedly give the best results and the films are fully stable afterwards. (And my home processor very nicely will handle all six separate chemicals.) But six bath kits are so doggone hard to find. My only option for such (July 2025) are the Bellini kits, which are actually super nice for their great packaging and the one liter chemistry amounts are ideal. But they’re currently sold out, have been for awhile. More won’t be available for months. On my mind also is how long they’ll continue to be available as well. Kodak’s not interested in offering E-6 chemistry, the Fuji-Hunt kits are long gone.

Then there are the three bath kits. Rarely if ever are there any shortages of those. They’re convent, a little quicker to process with too. But the big, big question I have with these is how long the processed film will last. Ron Mowrey (RIP) was adamant the colors in the film would fade with these kits unless an additional formaldehyde step not included with the chemistry was added in. The film being so dang expensive now, I sure don’t want them to self-destruct on me because of an inadequate processing kit.

So what is the real story with the three bath kits? I’m not too wild about keeping formaldehyde/formalin in my darkroom, nor long term exposure to it. But these three bath kits have been around for as long as I can remember. Everyone seems to use them. Are they flawed? Will the color in my film fade because of the shortcomings of the three bath kits?

 

[konakoa]

TLDR; no, they don't. With one beautiful exception.




A followup here, mostly with what I found doing some searching. I sent an entire day reading this site and others looking for answers until my head was dizzy and my eyes exhausted.

Long story short, yes, what I have gathered is the three bath kits without a stabilizer will leave the film vulnerable and unfinished. In a few years careful safe storage or not the film will fade and turn brown. In my case going to the effort of bringing along a really large bulky 8x10 camera, then the not insignificant cost of a sheet of color transparency film, further time and more expense of developing it myself, I want the film to last as long as possible!

It’s been some time since I last used some of these three bath kits, and I thought perhaps they might have been improved or something may have been incorporated into them to address the issue. From what I see however that is not the case. Of the three kits available as I write this, there is an Arista kit (these have been constantly and readily available for decades!) the Cinestil kits, and very, very nicely, Adox.

The Arista and Cinestill have no stabilizer whatsoever. From my reading and what I understand they're doing everyone a huge disservice as any films that go through those kits (of which I have used and already done several) are going to self-destruct. Color transparency E-6 film was designed for and must have a formaldehyde step to preserve the colors. Leave it out as these kits have done, the film will not persevere. With the time and trouble that goes into the film, it’s a terrible omission.

The Adox kit is far better. It includes a stabilizer. It doesn’t say outright what it is, and I am no chemist by any means, yet looking at the MSDS for the stabilizer it states it is Hexamethylenetetramine and a common name for that is Hexamine. My reading tells me that this compound turns into formaldehyde, and this is critical for E-6 films.

If anyone reads this, how does this conversion happen? I do see it needs something acidic. I ask as I don’t see how if I pour the Adox stabilizer solution into distilled water that it’s acidic enough to create the reaction and generate formaldehyde.

 

[mshchem]

Go with Adox (Tetenal) works perfectly.

 

[konakoa]

My preferences are for the Bellini and Adox kits.

The Bellini makes its own stabilizer inside the processor with the 'pre-bleach' step. Very nice. But the complete six bath kits aren't always available. There have been long, long periods where no six bath chemistry from anyone can be found at all. Film piles up and I really want it processed. The three bath kits are pretty much always there. Yet those have that lamentable omission of the stabilizer, except for Adox thankfully.

 

[Kino]

Is there no way to purchase the stabilizer as a stand-alone product?

 

[OrientPoint]

Cinestill sells a hexamine stabilizer: https://cinestillfilm.com/products/cs41-simplified-color-stabilizer-final-rinse-bath-1000ml

 

[Kino]

Cinestill sells a hexamine stabilizer: https://cinestillfilm.com/products/cs41-simplified-color-stabilizer-final-rinse-bath-1000ml

This is advertised as C-41 stabilizer; same thing?

 

[ChrisGalway]

Konakoa, where do you live? The 6/7 bath Bellini kits are available from several European mail order houses (e.g. FotoImpex, who of course also sell/make the Adox 3/4 bath kits).

I use both Bellini and Adox, alternately as I like to support both companies. My subjective view is that both give indistinguishable results, both excellent.

If you are in the US, my impression was that Freestyle will shortly be stocking a Kodak-branded 6/7 bath kit shortly (they released the new C41 kit a few months ago). You could ask them when they hope to get the 6/7 bath Kodak E6 kit.

 

[OrientPoint]

This is advertised as C-41 stabilizer; same thing?

C-41 stabilizer will work with E-6 film. See https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...bilizer-for-e-6-stabilizer.36280/#post-524011

 

[Kino]

This seems a reasonable price/thing for the 3 part kits to insure longevity; any reason it is not?

 

[OrientPoint]

I find it a bit crazy that they wouldn't include it in the kits. It's probably about $0.25 of plastic, chemicals and water.

I don't use Cinestill chemicals, but I added a couple of bottles of this stuff onto a film order with them to use when developing pre-2000 C-41 film I occasionally shoot. I didn't particularly feel like keeping formalin around for the odd time I shoot some of it. Fingers crossed that this actually does what it's supposed to.

I recall @koraks writing at some point that the tough thing about stabilizers is that you won't know if they worked as expected or not for 10 years. My Cinestill stabilizer journey is barely into year 2.

 

[konakoa]

Chris, I’m in the US. The Bellini kits have been sold out for awhile here and I even tried to purchase some from FotoImpex. They couldn’t ship it here. I’m stuck with three bath kits.

I’m very interested that Kodak might be reviving a six bath E-6 kits. Where was this announced? The last time they did those was…twenty years ago?

I’m still very curious how Hexamine works. Nothing else other than to understand and ensure it creates formaldehyde to future proof my film.

 

[koraks]

I recall @koraks writing at some point that the tough thing about stabilizers is that you won't know if they worked as expected or not for 10 years.

yeah, but don't take my word for gospel. I just really don't know.

Anyway, in the case of the 3-bath E6 kits, I'd just do a final rinse of (demineralized, if you will) water with some photoflo and a few drops of formalin. The exposure to formalin resulting from this practice will likely be less than breathing the air while walking around a city block. Let's keep in mind that formaldehyde is pretty much everywhere and it's even produced inside the human body. While excessive exposure evidently is not a good idea, the minimal exposure involved in the use as proposed here is really of no concern.

I’m still very curious how Hexamine works.

I haven't been able to find more than you have; pH is a factor in the conversion and the conversion is also not instantaneous, but occurs to some pH-modulated rate. This is how it works in the case of methenamine (=hexamine) when used as a drug to combat urinary tract infections.

Keep in mind that if you use hexamine as a precursor, you'll still be forming formaldehyde in situ, which brings an exposure element due to minor amounts of the stuff evaporating. The total exposure may be less than if you use a few drops of a regular 37% formalin solution, but so much depends on specific working methods and environment that it's hard to be sure. One thing that's very obvious is that there's no real health risk involved in handling the small amounts of formalin you'd need to stablize a couple of sheets of film every week or so. Don't sweat it. It's not like you're in the business of soaking corpses in formalin on a daily basis, or assisting first year medical students in dissecting the legs of deceased people with a cloud of formaldehyde wafting from every workbench in the room.

 

[ChrisGalway]

Chris, I’m in the US. The Bellini kits have been sold out for awhile here and I even tried to purchase some from FotoImpex. They couldn’t ship it here. I’m stuck with three bath kits.

OK, so I would recommend the Adox kit ... and although people speak about this as "3 bath", it is actually four baths, as the final rinse called Stabiliser is not optional. (Similarly, Bellini and the other "6 bath" are actually 7 baths.)

I’m very interested that Kodak might be reviving a six bath E-6 kits. Where was this announced? The last time they did those was…twenty years ago?

I sure I read this somewhere, when the new "Kodak" C41 kits came out around 6 months ago (some sort of joint venture wit Cinestill), but I cannot find any link now! Perhaps it was wishful thinking on my part.

 

[MattKing]

I sure I read this somewhere, when the new "Kodak" C41 kits came out around 6 months ago (some sort of joint venture wit Cinestill), but I cannot find any link now! Perhaps it was wishful thinking on my part.

Photo Systems now hold the rights to make, market and distribute all Kodak branded still film photo chemicals.
They only list photo chemicals for black and white and colour negative films on their website - nothing for RA4 paper or E6 films.
Those might still be coming, but I don't know.
If you reach out to them through their related website found here: https://kodak.photosys.com/, you will most likely hear back from CineStill, because that is the entity they have contracted with to handle worldwide distribution and individual customer enquiries.

 

[ChrisGalway]

Photo Systems now hold the rights to make, market and distribute all Kodak branded still film photo chemicals.
They only list photo chemicals for black and white and colour negative films on their website - nothing for RA4 paper or E6 films.
Those might still be coming, but I don't know.
If you reach out to them through their related website found here: https://kodak.photosys.com/, you will most likely hear back from CineStill, because that is the entity they have contracted with to handle worldwide distribution and individual customer enquiries.

I got a response from CineStill:

"Thank you for reaching out. We currently do not have an ETA on when the Kodak E6 Chemistry will be ready for release. If you have not already done so, I would suggest signing up for our newsletter to stay up-to-date on all product releases. Thank you."

So since they say "when the Kodak E6 Chemistry ...", I assume it is in the pipeline and we just have to wait. I remember when Adox announced that they were producing replacements for the Tetenal C41 and E6 kits, there was a delay, I suppose there are lots of little details (in Adox' case one of them was packaging) that have to be sorted out.

 

[Kino]

That's funny; the only 37% Formaldehyde I can find on Ebay is for cosmetics!

 

[ags2mikon]

You can buy 37% formaldehyde from Amazon. That's what I do. Use proper PPE and you are good to go.

 

[koraks]

So since they say "when the Kodak E6 Chemistry ...", I assume it is in the pipeline and we just have to wait.

Yes, certainly sounds that way!

 

[MattKing]

@ChrisGalway ,
We should get you to ask about RA4 print chemicals ......