Pyrocatechin paper developers?

[ongarine]

In these days I had time to experiment some old paper developers formulas I found in an old Italian chemistry photo book.
I tried this Pyrocatechin paper developer: V 275 (I presume V is for Voigtlander). It is made in two separate bath: A solution is 30 grams of Sodium Sulfite and 20 grams of Pyrocatechin in 1000 ml. of water; B is 120 grams of Sodium Carbonate in 1000ml of water.
The working solution is 1A+1B+ 4 to 6 ml of water and five drops of solution 1:10 Potassium Bromide every 100 ml of working solution.
The exposure of negative print is quite long, 3 time more than with others paper developers (Ilford 78 or Neutol WA)
The results are really bad, no good contrast and a lack of sharpness in the final prints, a delusion.
Someone of good chemists have some suggestions or Pyrocatechin paper developers users have some others formulas?
Thanks

 

[nze]

I use this one I found in an the cook book
Water 700ml
catechol 4g
potassium carbonate 45g
potassium bromide 0.4gm
and water to make 1 liter

The developer should be use hot ( between 30 and 40°C= to get best result), it should be use quickly and 1 liter can develop about 12 8x10 . Just mix before use.

you may get better result with your formula if you use it hot.

 

[Ole]

The working solution is 1A+1B+ 4 to 6 ml of water and five drops of solution 1:10 Potassium Bromide every 100 ml of working solution.

This is the bit I don't quite understand - is it 4 to 6 parts of water? Anyway it looks like a soft developer - like a lith developer with added sulfite and bromide to stop the infectious development.

Christian Nze's recipe contains no sulfite, so it's understandable that it has a very short life.

 

[ongarine]

Yes Ole you can mix it with 4 to 6 part of water+1A+1B.
There is a suggestion on the book about the solution: mix with the water between 4 to 6 part to have a developing time of 2/3 minutes for a full developed print.
I never reached a complete full developed print.....
Maybe somenthing went wrong, but I repeated two times the solution to be sure to have it well done.
Or the formula is for old paper very contrast.......

 

[Ole]

I'll have to try that. Not today - in fact not this month at all. But I'll give it a try and see what happens.

 

[Gerald Koch]

Warm tone developers like V.275 need a fully exposed print. Adjust exposure so that the print is developed in 2 - 3 min @ 22C. This will be a much longer exposure than for conventional developers such as Dektol. BTW, the version of V.275 that I have calls for potassium carbonate rather than sodium carbonate. Potassium salts are more photographically active than the sodium ones.

 

[ongarine]

Gerald I beg your pardon, I mistaken my notes I used potassium carbonate and not sodium carbonate.
Do you use currently V275? Which is your working solution? How much potassium bromide you add every liter of working solution?
I have prepared 500 ml. of stock solution A and B and I want use them with realiable results. So suggestions are welcome.

 

[craigclu]

I don't recall seeing this info posted by APUG'er Donald Miller (not sure if it's the same one???) but you might be interested in reading it.... I stumbled into it just today while looking for something else. I've been chasing some paper tones around a bit lately and thought it might be interesting to try. My only worry is that it might be short lived in the tray by oxidation (multiple sessions, especially). Perhaps Don can chime in with info and if it's already been discussed in APUG, refer a link as I couldn't quickly find any reference to it just now.

Miller Article

 

[Donald Miller]

My recent work with the Pyro Plus Paper Developer has evolved to the following formulation:

750 ML of water

30 gm sodium sulfite

.35 gm of Phenidone A dissolved in 10 ML of isopropyl alcohol

10 gm catechol

10 gm Pyrogallol

40 gm Sodium Carbonate

2-4 gm of potassium bromide (depending on warmth desired)

4 gm of citric acid

Water to make l liter

I mix the formulation from scratch each time preferring to do that rather then stock solutions.

As formulated, this is an active developer...indications are a shorter print emergence time and some seeming increase in paper speed. This developer as formulated above provides a dmax that is very comparable to amidol in my experience.

I have on occasion used 20 gm of cathechol per liter and eliminated the pyrogallol. This gives a softer working (less active) developer with greater warmth on neutral papers.

Good luck to any that try this formulation.

 

[Gerald Koch]

Do you use currently V275? Which is your working solution? How much potassium bromide you add every liter of working solution?

Sorry I do not use V.275. Needing a fully exposed print is, as I said, the recommended practice for warm tone developers. This I have verified by my own experience.

 

[ongarine]

At the end I convert the V 275 A solution in 2 liters of new PPPD solution Donald Miller kindly suggested.
I contact printed this morning some 13x18 with excellent results.
I was impressed by the D-Max of black and separation of tones.
The film is FP4 developed in a brew very similar to ID-11, paper is Efkebrom matt soft gradation; negatives are a little contrasted.
I have the opportinity to confront PPPD second edition with first edition because I made a complete test with Fomabrom and Ilford Warmtone last springtime. I will make a comparision tommorow when prints will be dry.
For Donald I have this question: how long the PPPD II edition will last in working diluition?
Try PPPD second edition it will worth! Thank to Donald and all that helped.
Daniele

 

[craigclu]

As formulated, this is an active developer...indications are a shorter print emergence time and some seeming increase in paper speed. This developer as formulated above provides a dmax that is very comparable to amidol in my experience.

Good luck to any that try this formulation.

Don, What sort of tray life have you seen with your developer? It seems that in the last couple of years, I'm sneaking into the darkroom for short sessions, covering my trays and finishing things the following evening or beyond. What are you using for stop/fix and are there any concerns with pH swings as in film?

 

[Donald Miller]

Don, What sort of tray life have you seen with your developer? It seems that in the last couple of years, I'm sneaking into the darkroom for short sessions, covering my trays and finishing things the following evening or beyond. What are you using for stop/fix and are there any concerns with pH swings as in film?

I have used the the developer for several hours, myself. Probably as much as four hours. (I rarely have the desire to stay at it much longer then that).

Alex Hawley has supposedly used the developer for more then one day but I can not attest to that in my own experience.

Lee Carmichael has used the developer and plans on using it in the upcoming workshop with Les McLean. He may be able to share his experiences on life of the developer.

If I have a short printing session, I may only mix one half liter, depending on the print size that I may be printing.

I use a conventional Acetic acid stop bath and Sodium Thiosulfate double fixing bath.

The problem is not in ph swings so much as oxidation. I would appreciate your feedback should you decide to give this formulation a try.

 

[lee]

I have used this developer and have never used it to completion. I have run 40 or 50 8x10s plus test strips of Azo thru it and it still had life. That took several hours to do and I have never saved it and used it the next day. Good luck I am quite fond of the PPPD papre developer.


lee\c

 

[ongarine]

I have used this developer (2 liters) in two separate print session at 24 hours of distance. First session was 10 18x24 cm prints, second the same number of prints. The print sessions took almost two hours each.
PPPD gave the same results without any lost of strength.
Now the PPPD is in well capped brown bottle and I will print another 10/12 18x24 cm. tommorow to see the condition of the developer.
I use a 30 seconds washing in running water as stop bath and Suzuki Ammonium Thiosulfate single fixing bath.
D.