Pushing Neopan 400 with ID-11 1+1

[gbenson]

Hi all,

I've been doing a darkroom course this past few weeks. The recommended film is HP5, but I picked up a load of (slightly) expired Neopan 400 and I'd like to use that instead. We've been developing in ID-11 1+1 at 20°C for 13 minutes, which develops HP5 to 400 ASA and would develop the Neopan to 800.

My first question is, how would Neopan 400 pushed to 800 this way compare to HP5 in terms of contrast and grain? Especially grain... I like it, just not too much!

Secondly, I'm thinking, while I'm pushing, could I go to 1600 with this developer? I found recipes for 250, 400, 800 and 1600 with ID-11 stock, and 400 and 800 with 1+1. I drew a graph of the stock times and it was basically a straight line, so I drew a graph with the 1+1 times and extended it to 1600 which gave 20 minutes. Does that sound like it would work, or am I missing something?

Sorry if these are stupid questions!

Cheers,
Gary

 

[Colin Corneau]

No question is stupid if you don't know the answer!

You can't go wrong with the Massive Development Chart. It's a starting point of course, but that along with your own experience/observation and you'll be doing well. My advice: check that first, rather than graphs and lines and stuff.

http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php

This is also one of the best apps for the iPhone/iPod Touch, also..it's free!!

I can only speak from my observation, but I've recently shot some Neopan 400 pushed to 800 -- it's a great 400 speed film and the grain is no problem one stop higher. Neopan has a very tight smooth grain to it (my opinion, of course) and is a quality film. I think it pushes very well

 

[Mick Fagan]

You will have to do your own tests, but I develop Neopan 400 in D76 1+1, which is essentially the same as ID11 1+1. I have been using this combination for several years now, very good film.

I found with my total developing system that includes, camera exposure, developing and printing, Neopan 400 works best exposed at 320 ASA, developed in a Jobo rotary developing system at 21ºC for 12.5 minutes.

With this combination, I have virtually grain free negatives with beautiful shadow detail and marvellous highlights.

If I wish for a slightly faster film speed, then I up to 640 ASA and develop for 14 minutes at 21ºC as above.

800 ASA is quite doable, but I find I’m starting to lose more than a bit of shadow detail; this is fine if the subject can tolerate shadow detail loss, but it can be problematic for portraiture. That said, today I shot a few rolls at my nephew’s wedding and exposed the film on one roll at 800, but I will be developing the film as though it was 1000 ASA.

With the roll exposed at 800 ASA, this was shot at the dinner and it is expected that there will be deep shadows with no detail.

What you are proposing, 1600 ASA exposure, will give you printable negatives, but you will certainly see loss of shadow detail. This isn’t a bad thing, just a fact.

I would suggest that you do expose and develop your film as you have suggested, take notes. Maybe even push the film further and just see what happens, it is the best way to learn, plus it’s fun.

Every person develops and exposes film slightly differently, you should, in a reasonably short time, start to see what works for you. Once you find a roll of film that works well, figure out what you have done, then be consistent, roll after roll after roll.

Mick.

 

[Tom Stanworth]

If you want to push this film, I would go no higher than 640 or 800 at a pinch.

Take a time that works for you at your normal rating speed (say this is 320) and for a speed 2/3 of a stop faster than this (500) use your normal time plus about 20%. Reduce agitation to three inversions 1/3 of the way through this extended time and again at 2/3 of the way through (roughly). This will help bump up the shadows but hold the highlights in check.

Try it. You'll be surprised. Film is cheap. I find this MUCH better than regular pushing which does very little for shadows but stretched the highlights to problematic levels if you have any bright areas in the frame.

 

[brucemuir]

Don't mean to hijack or go off topic but what is better if you need a slight speed boost (besides using XTOL) when using D76-ID11?
Would straight D76 be better or 1+1?

 

[gbenson]

Thank you everybody

 

[Johnkpap]

I had a Wedding Shoot where they wanted a 11x14 print from a low light shot.

I did alot of tests pushing various films to 1000asa and had the best results with Delta 400 at 800ASA and FP4 at 1000ASA developed in Id11 at 1+1 (deleloped for a extended time of about 20-30 mins)I found the best result was Delta at 800 but FP4 looked good up to about a 8x10 print but any further enlargment and the detail and grain were not great.

I Ended up taking the shot at 800asa on Delta with a very pleasing result, you should get a similar result with hp5 or neopan the only way to realy know it to just try it and see.

Johnkpap

 

[Tom Stanworth]

There are two issues when considering dilution for pushing:

1) Development time. Long times are a pain and they also build fog on the film.
2) concentrated devs do not work well with reduced agitation to help build speed. This is because the active ingredients dont exhaust locally in highlight (dense) areas of the neg.

My solution (get it?) is to use reduced agitation with a moderately dilute dev (Xtol 1+2). Personally, I would far rather push a film in ID11 1+1 than straight because I am more likely to get exhaustion in the dense highlight areas with reduced agitation and therefore be able to use a longer time to build the shadows without blowing the highlights.