Problem wth B+W UV Filter and 90mm F/4.5 grandagon

brent8927 · Mar 27, 2005

I have an interesting problem with my 90mm Grandagon-N (F4.5). When I screw on the B+W UV filter I purchased for the lens, it comes into contact with the front element; specifically I think it starts compressing the multicoating because I can see a small dot that gets bigger as I tighten the filter (I know, potential expensive mistake!) and it disappears when I unscrew the filter. There is definetely contact, I am sure of that. Has anyone else noticed this same problem? What kind of screw-in filters do other owners of this same lens use?

jmdavis · Mar 27, 2005

Brent,

Many people use a stepup ring and then mount the filter. This lowers or eliminates the chance of contact.

paul owen · Mar 27, 2005

This is a common problem with lenses (the 110XL for example) with a bulbous front element. I solved the problem by using a 67-77mm step ring on the lens - gives enough clearance without vignetting.

David H. Bebbington · Mar 27, 2005

The answer to filter problems can often be found in the offerings of
www.srbfilm.co.uk
Not only step-up and step-down rings but also empty filter holders (which would allow Brent to use the expensive filter he's bought). Empty filter holders can be taped to the fronts of lens mounts and are an easy way of putting a standard metric filter thread onto a lens which has no thread, an inch-size thread or a weird-size thread (I have a 210 mm Russian lens with a 51 mm thread - never seen a filter in this size).

Regards,

David

paul owen · Mar 27, 2005

David's right! An 82mm "spacer" will cost you approx £18 UK pounds or you could find an 82mm filter (scratched/damaged) and salvage the mount!

jp80874 · Mar 27, 2005

If you add the spacer wont you create vignetting?

I have the same lens and am just starting to look for filters. I had read (cant remember source) that you had to buy slim filters to avoid vignetting. Slim is the name Schneider Optics B+W filters use for filters that are thinner than their standard size. They are thinner because there is no front thread.

I asked Bob Solomon at HP Marketing what Heliopan offered to avoid vignetting.. HP as you know is the US distributor for both Heliopan filters and Rodenstock lenses. He responded, Unlike B+W Heliopan only makes slim filters with front threads. B+W charges more for their slim filters and they do not have front threads. Only Heliopan slim polarizers do not have front threads.

So again I ask if you add the spacer wont you create vignetting?

Thanks.

John Powers

David H. Bebbington · Mar 27, 2005

The suggestion of a spacer was to allow use of an already-purchased filter. I agree, if starting from scratch, a stepping ring, say 82 -> 86 mm would be better. However, as the addition of a spacer essentially corrects the design fault of a filter mount which is too shallow, I would be surprised if vignetting was a problem with 4x5", though of course the maximum possible camera movements will be slightly reduced. Both my 90 mm f8 lenses (Super Angulon and Nikor SW) manage quite happily with a 67 mm filter.

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 27, 2005

I've used the spacer trick with my Bronica-Nikkor 40/4.0 for 6x6. I just purchased a filter of the right size on eBay and removed the glass (it was something like a Tiffen cooling filter--so it had a decent ring, but was the sort of filter that there isn't much demand for, so it was just a few dollars).

jp80874 · Mar 27, 2005

Brent8927,

I wonder if it is a bad max and min tolerance between the Rodenstock lens and the Schneider B+W filter? I just won a Heliopan 82mm center filter on eBay. When it arrives I will put the two together and report back whether they touch. If the do touch then I guess the spacer will be the only way to salvage the price of the center filter.

John Powers

bobfowler · Mar 27, 2005

My Ilex-Calumet 90mm f/8 Wide Field Caltar doesn't have filter threads. I got around the problem by using black electrical tape to hold series 8 retaining ring to the front cell. 67mm filters now fit perfectly.

brent8927 · Mar 27, 2005

You guys point out a lot of good solutions. I'm thinking I will probably not use the UV filter a ton, I think I'll use it in conditions where the lens is in danger, like where there's sand or some rain. I take good care of my equipment so I think I'll be ok not having the filter on the lens at all times (I know there's a lot of arguments over whether or not a UV filter should be used on large format lenses...) but when needed I could just partially screw in the UV filter so the elements don't touch, but I still get protection.

As for future filters, I'll try and see if Hoya or Heliopan filters work ok; I would prefer to buy the smallest filters I need but if a step-up ring is necessary, then I'll have to get one of those. I think the spacer idea is a great one, and would let me keep my UV filter on at all times rather than only putting it on partially on some occasions, but I do like to use a lot of movements because I shoot mostly architecture.

Thanks for all your suggestions

jp80874 · Mar 27, 2005

As is so often the case, a little research answered my concern about vignetting.
The 82mm Heliopan center filter has 105mm front threads (see http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=21724&is=REG ) If you want to stack filters on top of the center filter they will need to be 105mm to avoid vignetting. If you use the step up ring solution it would appear Heliopan thinks you should go up to 105mm probably to avoid vignetting. Coincidentally this works
well for me because I have two 8x10 lenses: 300mm APO-Symmar f5.6 and 210mm Super-Symmar HM f5.6 that take 105mm filters.

John Powers

jp80874 · Mar 31, 2005

jp80874 said:
Brent8927,

I wonder if it is a bad max and min tolerance between the Rodenstock lens and the Schneider B+W filter? I just won a Heliopan 82mm center filter on eBay. When it arrives I will put the two together and report back whether they touch. If the do touch then I guess the spacer will be the only way
to salvage the price of the center filter.

John Powers

The Heliopan E 82/105 ND 0.45 center filter arrived. I screwed it on the Rodenstock Grandagon-N f4.5 90mm lens with 82mm filter threads.
Everything fits without the bubble Brent mentioned indicating lens and filter touching. To add additional filters they will need to be 105mm to screw
into the outer Heliopan threads.

I am starting to look for additional 105mm black and white filters of B+W or Heliopan quality if anyone has some for sale. Specifically I want: 010 UV haze, Medium Yellow 022 (#8), Yellow Green 060 (11), Light Red 090
(25), and a linear polarizer.

Thanks,

John Powers

MikeK · Mar 31, 2005

I have a similar problem with my 120mm f8 Super Angulon. It has a bulbous front element and the so much so that Hoya filters will not fit at all. But B&W filters do. They do not come cheap

I did bite the bullet for a polarizer, but as others have done removed the glass from a Hoya UV and used that as a small extension tube. No problems with cut-off as the 120mm is not that wide.

Mike

Problem wth B+W UV Filter and 90mm F/4.5 grandagon

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