Problem mixing Microphen

[m. dowdall]

I tried mixing the Microphen formulae in Chemical Recipes section today. It mixed up cloudy no matter how much it was mixed. After letting it sit the precipitate settled into a fine powder on the bottom. Does anyone know what happen here? Is this normal?

I used fresh chemicals from the Formulary as well as others. The borax used was 20 Mule Team. The water was from the tap.

Can I decant the clear liquid from the top and use this with standard developing starting times?

Thanks in advance.

Michael

 

[David H. Bebbington]

Not sure which formula you mean - this one?
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)
To start with the obvious, did you mix the chemicals in the stated order in water at 35 to 40°C and make sure each one was fully dissolved before adding the next one?
To save the solution you have made, have you tried heating it (easiest way is to put it in a stainless steel container and stand this in very hot water)?

 

[m. dowdall]

Hi David

Yes that's the formulae I tried. Mixed in the order listed at 125F and yes I tried heating the solution in a microwave in a glass beaker afterwards. Still there was a precipitate. I'm left thinking that it might have something to do with the tap water. I'm going to try it on an unimportant roll first if this doesn't work then I'll try mixing another batch with distilled water.

Thanks

Michael

 

[psvensson]

Phenidone is tough to dissolve in water. You might try dissolving it in a small amount of high-proof alcohol, like rubbing alcohol, before adding it to the water. None of the other ingredients are likely to precipitate.

 

[m. dowdall]

Phenidone is tough to dissolve in water. You might try dissolving it in a small amount of high-proof alcohol, like rubbing alcohol, before adding it to the water. None of the other ingredients are likely to precipitate.

I completely disolved the phenidone in 70% alcohol. 1g in 100ml and used 13ml of this solution.

I didn't think anything should have come out of solution. If my test roll doesn't come out right, I'll dump this batch and try mixing another with distilled water.

Michael

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

Yes Michael, it may well be that your tap water is the problem. I've never had a problem mixing this recipe in deionized water - no precipitates.

 

[dancqu]

I tried mixing the Microphen formulae ... It mixed
up cloudy no matter how much it was mixed.
Michael

Patrick Dignan recommends a bisulfited solution.
Phenidone will dissolve more readily in an acid solution.
A few formulas make a point of including a bisulfite along
with the hydroquinone and phenidone as part A. That
part to be mixed first then the other ingredients.

A few nights ago I attempted to dissolve 1 gram
of phenidone in 125 ml of H2O containing 5 grams of
sodium bisulfite. No luck. Next day I added another 125
ml H2O and success. In the 250 ml there persists a very
fine, very minute amount of undissolved. Under the
conditions of that experiment I'd say 1 gram in
250 ml is borderline max. Dan