Printing color negatives on blackand white paper

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by WGibsonPhotography, Feb 26, 2009.

  1. WGibsonPhotography

    WGibsonPhotography Member

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    How is the best way to print color negatives on to black and white paper? I did an internet search and found as many different ways as people giving advice. If I remember correctly from my internet searching (stupid me closed out of the site with this info), I need to use the school's color enlarger and filter out red since black and white paper isnt as sensitive to red, right?

    *runs off to find more info on the internet*
     
  2. PHOTOTONE

    PHOTOTONE Member

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    There is no really good way to do darkroom prints on b/w photo paper. You can sometimes get fairly acceptable results but the tonal values will be distorted..as the paper does not see all the colors in the negative. Used to be both Kodak and Fuji made specific papers designed for making b/w prints from color negatives, but they don't anymore.
     
  3. Cruzingoose

    Cruzingoose Member

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    Print color negatives on to black and white paper?

    First, yes, there will be a slight change in rendition of color and grain effect.

    Use VC paper and start with 60 Cyan and 50 Magenta. This removes the yellow and orange from the negative and allows a nice snappy B&W print. Blue colors will appear darker and yellow colors will appear lighter increasing the grain effect, but you will still have a pleasing B&W print.
     
  4. Jon Shiu

    Jon Shiu Subscriber

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    You can sometimes get a satisfactory print by using a regular black and white enlarger with a high filter, like a grade 4 or 5 with variable contrast paper. Exposure times will be long.

    Jon
     
  5. Thomas Wilson

    Thomas Wilson Member

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    I don't know if Kodak still makes Panalure paper. It probably was discontinued with Panatomic-X. This will be your best bet if you can find some. As its name, Panalure, suggests, (Pan=across) it is sensitive across the entire visible spectrum and must be handled as if it were color paper. Develop as normal Dektol 1:1, 2 min @ 68 f.

    Your other option is to treat your color negative as a thin, flat B&W negative, print it on some Multigrade paper, and whack the hell out of it with a number 4 or 5 filter.
     
  6. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    The best system is to use an internegative. You have to contact print (or enlarge) the color negative onto a B+W piece of film and reversal process it...maybe this works better for slides...
     
  7. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    I agree, you might try to make an interpositive using a pan film.

    There is the ilford rc digital or oriental hyper seagull, but I have tried neither.
     
  8. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    I hate to say this here, but you might want to make a digital negative of your original and print that without the mask or color.

    PE
     
  9. Aurum

    Aurum Member

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    This was one of the first things I tried when as a spotty teenager I was allowed access to a darkroom.

    The results were not great, as I wasn't using filtration (This was before Multigrade papers were widely available)
    The amber mask on the negative made for very long exposure times.

    IIRC monograde paper is orthochromatic, so my thought is its a good way of recreating the ortho look, if you are willing to spend the time.

    And as for Ron's suggestion. Guilty as charged when I'm doing gum bichromate work. Hybrid workflow and access to free overhead projector acetates and a really nice laser printer in the office..... Well it would be rude not to :wink:
     
  10. Shangheye

    Shangheye Member

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    I print colour on B&W paper regularly. It will never be the same as printing a B&W negative, but you get good results with VC paper at grades above 3. You will only know the difference, if you have the same negative in B&W for comparison anyway. K
     
  11. Lopaka

    Lopaka Member

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    I have had surprisingly good results with this. If you would like particulars, PM me.
    Bob
     
  12. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    Ilford devotes two pages to this in its very useful booklet" "MG papers - a manual for the darkroom". It shows the colour neg and the B&W print obtained from it and very good it looks to me. You need to expect to use 3-4 times the exposure required for B&W negs and to use MG filters 3 or 4 or an equivalent setting on a dichroic head. If such prints had severe or unacceptable drawbacks then Ilford would I think no bother to devote a section in its darkroom manual to it. I mention this just to put things into perspective.

    I then tried it myself with 35 year old colour negs from the early 1970s when colour negs weren't to the standard of today and was very pleasantly surprised at the results. These were Kodak negs, processed by mail order so may not have even been properly washed as was the way, I believe, with cheap processing then. My compliments to Kodak and P.E for the negs quality, longevity and durability.

    Exposures were still reasonable time-wise, the prints were sharp and none of the "viewers" of the prints mentioned that the tones looked strange. With modern slower colour neg film, I think you might be very happy with the results.

    pentaxuser
     
  13. analogsnob

    analogsnob Member

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    I have in the past taken Kodak Supra paper and processed in Dektol 2minuits or so followed by a non hardening fix and gotten surprisingly ok prints. They were somewhat flat but the tone rendering was correct. Perhaps try Ultra.

    You of coarse have to work without safelight.
     
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  15. kevs

    kevs Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2009
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    WGibsonPhotography

    WGibsonPhotography Member

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    Thanks for all the feedback. I've been doing some internet research and reading in some of my photography books on the subject. From what I've found, I might be better off scanning the negatives and doing some editing with methods not suitable for discussion on this site :smile:
     
  17. Marvin

    Marvin Member

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    I was considering doing some of this and I am aware that you can get good results from scanning and processing digitally. I have a film scanner and have scanned and converted digitally but with a good supply of paper and chemicals thought it might be fun to play around with this process in the darkroom. Since this is an old thread just wondered if anyone has played around with this and has any new suggestions.
    Marvin
     
  18. ChrisFairfowl

    ChrisFairfowl Member

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    I totally agree with Pentaxuser, I have made many lovely black and white prints from old colour negative film. It's fun too and I believe people wishing to do it want an alternative to the digital route. Although options are limited in terms of materials, in my view you can yield excellent results using both current B+W paper and some old grade 3 stock. I have some Kodak Bromesko 3 and it is still giving excellent results. Using a meter like the Darkroom Automation unit doesn't work quite as well for reading contrast or exposure for Highlight, Shadow or Mid tone. However, using the fb+f is a good reference to meter from a starting point for Black or nearly black. The image shown here of two of my girls was printed a few weeks ago - Sept. 2016. The neg. (taken 20 years ago) 6x6 Fuji Reala on Kodak Bromesco 3 which is also over 20 years old if not more. This image was taken of the print using an iPhone so doesn't give a good rendition but it will give an idea of what can be done. The average viewer would never guess it was a colour neg to B+W print and the grain is almost impossible to see. Give it a try, you may be pleasantly surprised.
     
  19. Svenedin

    Svenedin Subscriber

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    Very interested to read this thread. I have a lot of colour films that were developed in high street chemists (e.g. Boots) and machine printed. I have a few negatives that I consider worthy of re-printing and it will be fun to try this. I have never wanted to do colour printing so this thread has encouraged me to try on black and white paper. Thank you!
     
  20. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    It's well worth the effort. I have a B&W print from a 1970s colour neg that was taken at an informal company function.
    The B&W print suits the scene better than colour. It is like something out of the "Life On Mars" police drama:D

    pentaxuser
     
  21. Svenedin

    Svenedin Subscriber

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    Haha. Flares, nylon shirts, kipper ties? My Scout Master used to say flares would come back in but they haven't yet! That was his excuse for still wearing them.
     
  22. luisrq

    luisrq Member

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    I'm very interested on this thread too but there are some points to clarify. I want print B&W with my enlarger from Slides Color (Positive), the high filtering to grade 4 or 5 has worked quite well for me when I was working with color negative film, but a color slide is positive and in my opinion this will give negative images on B&W paper. I have experimented as well Digital Negatives process but I'm not very happy with the tonal range, on the other hand you shall made a Digital Negative for every size you want to print.

    I have two suggestions and will appreciate your comments:

    1.- Why not duplicate in B&W film the slides? with a duplicator attached to the lens? (and using a fine grain film)
    2.- Has anyone heard some comments/experiences with this:

    http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/transfer-36-digital-images-back-to-35mm-film/p7124

    Thank you very much in advance
    Lluis
     
  23. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    hi Lluis
    you could do exactly that
    make a film internegative, ( or paper if you don't mind the blue blind<?> tonal range )
    while i have done it and gotten great results,
    the film recorder situation at first call sounds good but who knows after a while it adds up
    i hate to say this but im more for the hybrid print route these days ( instead of a hybrid negative )
    ( sorry, i'm broke )
    i opt to have a print made at my local lab .. just scan the film and desaturate it and send her the file
    instead of the film recorder and she makes me a print on fuji paper. ... OR
    i send the file as a negative to my local xerox / copy shop and they either make me a paper internegative
    ( that i can wax or not wax and contact print old school ) or an overhead transparency negative to make a print
    either in the dark room or in the sun ... around here where i live paper xerox negatives cost like 20¢ each and
    a overhead transparency ) upto 8x10 ( is 75¢ .. super cheap and lots of fun..
    i can even make my sun prints look like litchenstein made them )1/2 tone dots( if i want :smile:

    have fun !
    john
     
  24. Agulliver

    Agulliver Member

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    I've done it with satisfactory results using a B&W enlarger and grade 4 paper. To some extent it depends on the content of the photo
     
  25. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    +1. It's too bad that there aren't any panochromatic BW papers made anymore. But I find 35mm negatives made on film recorders disappointing. I did make contact prints from OHP film on my ink jet printer are much better.
     
  26. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    I like the photo Chrisfairfowl gave us on 20 Oct 2016 of his two girls taken 20 years before. A great picture, I thought, but maybe not if you are the daughters now in their mid/late 20s. Funnily enough it was the last time Chris was seen here. Maybe they "got" him:D

    I had unfortunately paid little attention to Cruzingoose's post in 2009 which suggests the use of dichroic filters as a way of appropriate colour neg correction. He suggested 60C and 50M as a start by way of removing the orange and yellow and darkening the blues for a snappy print

    Anyone else have success with this kind of colour filter combo?

    pentaxuser
     
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