Printers for digital negatives for Kallitypes?

[Rolleiflexible]

I've been gone a long time. I want to try my hand at Kallitypes. I need a printer to make negatives from JPGs. I don't plan to use the printer for anything else -- I just want something that will print fine detail and not break down.

I can't find a discussion about which printers are well-suited to making digital negatives. Any thoughts? An 8x10 is fine to start, but I'm interested in wider formats too.

Many thanks in advance,

Sanders McNew
www.instagram.com/sandersnyc

 

[Rolleiflexible]

Perhaps I should reframe: Does the printer matter? Can I use a laser printer? Dyes? Pigments?

Sanders McNew
www.Instagram.com/sandersnyc

 

[Adam W]

While I'm sure I could get better results with a higher-end photo printer, I've had decent results with an inexpensive HP inkjet 4-in-1 (print/scan/fax/copy). I do have to print two copies and tape them together to get the density I need, but it works for me for Van Dyke Brown and cyanotype. You can see samples here: https://flic.kr/s/aHskWKAunj and here: https://flic.kr/s/aHskKqLQFj

Adam

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I've only ever used Epson printers, such as 4000 (had for 10 years and finally died), two 3800's (of one I still use for large negatives up to 17 inches across), and my favourite, the P400. It does up to 13 inches wide which in most cases, is big enough. It also has smaller ink droplets compared to the 3800, which translates into smoother gradient. You might be able to pick up a refurbished one, like I did. I bought refillable cartridges from inkowl. I've converted them all to print black (no matt), except for one which is yellow, as it's an excellent UV blocker.
I think the P800 is the latest model. Most Epson printers allow the use of QTR (Quadtone Rip) to aid in the making of digi negs. It is what I use for Kallitype, Carbon Transfer, gum, and a few more alt processes.

 

[revdoc]

I use an HP all-in-one, too, but it prints digital negs just fine with one pass. Dmax is enough for any process; yellow by itself matches the exposure scale for VDB. That can be boosted quite a lot with the addition of cyan or magenta.

It uses dye-based inks, as far as I can tell.

 

[removed account4]

Hi Sanders
I’ve been making digital negatives with pictorico using a cheap o Epson 640 expression ...for everything from kallitypes to salt prints to gum to PTPD and Ziatypes. It works ok, much to the side-eye glances of people I know who suggest it probably isn't the best thing to use. If I had the $ and the guts, I’d get an Epson 3880 or 3800.( I think that’s the one ). its absolutely beautiful, can make negatives and images big and small.and is always highly recommended, My only problem is, Ive had ink clog issues with the Epson I already use ( no fun!) and I understand clog! is sometimes Epson's middle name (maybe if you don't print something every day ? ) so it makes me nervous to take the plunge seeing ink tanks are never inexpensive, and I don't print every day...
.. have fun!
John

 

[Rolleiflexible]

ink clog issues with the Epson I already use ( no fun!) and I understand clog! is sometimes Epson's middle name

John, you put your finger on it. I hate inkjets. I sooo want to make Kallitypes of a landscape series I am shooting now. The chemicals and the contract printing don’t intimidate me. But I do find myself balking at the process of making the negatives. Curves, RIPs, cloggy printers, densitometers, stepwedges— make me want to throw up. I am wondering whether there’s a more intuitive way to go about this, not unlike the trial and error of making a silver gelatin print with contrast filters and an enlarger. Surely there is a way to make negatives that doesn’t require such a deep dive into Photoshop (I use Elements) and mathematical precision.

But first step: Buy a printer that doesn’t clog. Canon?

 

[bdial]

First, welcome back, long time no see!

I have an inexpensive Canon that I only use for general printing, but it has caused no headaches in the two or three years I’ve had it.

 

[tnp651]

I use an Epson P600 and it's worked well. The secret to avoiding clogs is to use it often, even if it's a test page.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

John, you put your finger on it. I hate inkjets. I sooo want to make Kallitypes of a landscape series I am shooting now. The chemicals and the contract printing don’t intimidate me. But I do find myself balking at the process of making the negatives. Curves, RIPs, cloggy printers, densitometers, stepwedges— make me want to throw up. I am wondering whether there’s a more intuitive way to go about this, not unlike the trial and error of making a silver gelatin print with contrast filters and an enlarger. Surely there is a way to make negatives that doesn’t require such a deep dive into Photoshop (I use Elements) and mathematical precision...

Dude, you're singing my song note for note!

We bought an Epson SC-P600 over a year ago and I'm still dragging my feet and tripping over hurdles. I don't mind post processing in the digital realm, but navigating through the stoopid dialogue boxes, command tangents, and multiple steps is inspiration numbing. Everything to do with the printer dumps cold water on my creative fire.

I'm going to give it one really good shot, and if I can't/don't want to deal with the printer anymore I'll find someone to make digitally enlarged negatives for me. If it reaches that point I'll gladly pay someone else to coddle their printer instead of me having to do it.

My UV LED light bars should be here in a few days, so I have to order some OHP film, then it's pretty much go-time.

I'll be using Ron Reeder and Christina Z. Anderson's book, "Digital Negatives with QuadRoneRIP" (uses the inks already in the printer) as my guide.

Good to know someone else out there feels my pain!

 

[MurrayMinchin]

For those that have figured this digi-neg process thing out...

Pictorico doesn't seem to be sold in Canada, but the Arista II 7ml OHP film is available and in stock. Good stuff?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

For Canadians, particularly in the Lower Mainland, I've always used whatever my local screenprinting shop has.... eie wp or Silkjet (even cheaper). Willox Graphics in Burnaby. Have used it for years. Sheet sizes and rolls.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

For Canadians, particularly in the Lower Mainland, I've always used whatever my local screenprinting shop has.... eie wp or Silkjet (even cheaper). Willox Graphics in Burnaby. Have used it for years. Sheet sizes and rolls.

Thanks for the tip.

This stuff? https://www.willox.com/supMAT.php

In the long run, does it pay to pinch pennies on digital negative substrate when doing first ever tests with alt processes? Is there a chance max black times or textured whites or any number of other factors might be compromised?

 

[MurrayMinchin]

...and is this the Fixxon's I've read about? https://www.fixxons.com/negative-film

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Thanks for the tip.

This stuff? https://www.willox.com/supMAT.php

In the long run, does it pay to pinch pennies on digital negative substrate when doing first ever tests with alt processes? Is there a chance max black times or textured whites or any number of other factors might be compromised?

Yes, that's the stuff. I've used this stuff for years. It's indistinguishable from pictorico. I've had no issues. The Silkjet is from Japan. They don't make shit. I was hesitant to use the Chinese stuff, but it's been excellent. It's all I use now. I have many images in the gallery...kallitypes, cyanotypes, tri-colour gum, carbon transfer... where I used eie wp.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Yes, that's the stuff. I've used this stuff for years. It's indistinguishable from pictorico. I've had no issues. The Silkjet is from Japan. They don't make shit. I was hesitant to use the Chinese stuff, but it's been excellent. It's all I use now. I have many images in the gallery...kallitypes, cyanotypes, tri-colour gum, carbon transfer... where I used eie wp.

Excellent. Thanks a bunch.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Yes, that's the stuff. I've used this stuff for years. It's indistinguishable from pictorico. I've had no issues. The Silkjet is from Japan. They don't make shit. I was hesitant to use the Chinese stuff, but it's been excellent. It's all I use now. I have many images in the gallery...kallitypes, cyanotypes, tri-colour gum, carbon transfer... where I used eie wp.

Found this film in the lower mainland: https://www.thescreenprintstore.ca/waterproof-screen-positive-inkjet-film-8-5x11-100-sheets/

It has the same wording/description as Fixxons Negative film, so I emailed the store to see if it actually was Fixxons.

Got a reply saying they used to sell Fixxons, but switched to this film (he never did say who the manufacturer is) because it was easier to get a hold of, and was functionally the same.

I ordered a 100 sheet box of 8.5x11 because it's $20.00 Canadian cheaper than the EIE WP from Willox, and I have to factor in shipping to north coast BC.

Time will tell...

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Found this film in the lower mainland: https://www.thescreenprintstore.ca/waterproof-screen-positive-inkjet-film-8-5x11-100-sheets/

It has the same wording/description as Fixxons Negative film, so I emailed the store to see if it actually was Fixxons.

Got a reply saying they used to sell Fixxons, but switched to this film (he never did say who the manufacturer is) because it was easier to get a hold of, and was functionally the same.

I ordered a 100 sheet box of 8.5x11 because it's $20.00 Canadian cheaper than the EIE WP from Willox, and I have to factor in shipping to north coast BC.

Time will tell...

Thanks for the link! It's considerably cheaper than eie wp! You'll have to let us know what you think of it. Their store is in Poco, which is where I teach. I pretty much pass by them on the way to and from work.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Thanks for the link! It's considerably cheaper than eie wp! You'll have to let us know what you think of it. Their store is in Poco, which is where I teach. I pretty much pass by them on the way to and from work.

We live at extremes, you and I.

You have easy, quick access to shopping for all kinds of materials you may need, and it's about a 15 hour drive to get to either Calgary or Vancouver (20 minute difference according to google) from where I live.

Might not have an opinion for a few months...have never made an alternative process print and printers are a complete mystery to me so have no frame of reference!

 

[Rolleiflexible]

I found an interesting article online by Mike Ware that describes a workflow that seems to avoid a lot of the less accessible parts of the process,

https://www.mikeware.co.uk/downloads/DiginegWork.pdf

… and I’m wondering whether anyone else has had success with it?

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Found this film in the lower mainland: https://www.thescreenprintstore.ca/waterproof-screen-positive-inkjet-film-8-5x11-100-sheets/

It has the same wording/description as Fixxons Negative film, so I emailed the store to see if it actually was Fixxons.

Got a reply saying they used to sell Fixxons, but switched to this film (he never did say who the manufacturer is) because it was easier to get a hold of, and was functionally the same.

I ordered a 100 sheet box of 8.5x11 because it's $20.00 Canadian cheaper than the EIE WP from Willox, and I have to factor in shipping to north coast BC.

Time will tell...

I dropped by their store as it's near my school. Picked up 20 sheets. The stuff is identical to the eie that I've been using. Printed out a digital neg with no issues. Will make a kallitype later tonight after the Canucks game.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

I dropped by their store as it's near my school. Picked up 20 sheets. The stuff is identical to the eie that I've been using. Printed out a digital neg with no issues. Will make a kallitype later tonight after the Canucks game.

Awesome, thanks for the update.

Mine just came in today (along with the UV LED light bars) and it’s comforting to know it works. That’s one less thing to worry about or start second guessing if (when!!!) things go wrong.

Much appreciated.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Here's a negative printed on that film from the screen print store... Just made a print, too. This stuff is the very same in looks and characteristics. I won't have to make any adjustments, to accommodate it. Thanks again for pointing this shop out to me. I chatted with the owner. He's been there for 18 years! I had no idea! The reason why his stuff is cheaper is because everyone pays one price. Willox has a cheaper wholesale price and a higher price for the average Joe. I know where I'll be getting my films from now on!

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Here's a negative printed on that film from the screen print store... Just made a print, too. This stuff is the very same in looks and characteristics. I won't have to make any adjustments, to accommodate it. Thanks again for pointing this shop out to me. I chatted with the owner. He's been there for 18 years! I had no idea! The reason why his stuff is cheaper is because everyone pays one price. Willox has a cheaper wholesale price and a higher price for the average Joe. I know where I'll be getting my films from now on!

Beginners luck!

Now that I have your ear...what kind of UV light source do you have? Do you expose your prints by a set time on the clock and if so, do the exposures vary for any reason? By inspection? Or do you use a UV light measurement device? (Have my eye on a measuring device, but it'll chew through a good portion of my budget).

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Beginners luck!

Now that I have your ear...what kind of UV light source do you have? Do you expose your prints by a set time on the clock and if so, do the exposures vary for any reason? By inspection? Or do you use a UV light measurement device? (Have my eye on a measuring device, but it'll chew through a good portion of my budget).

I use a BLB exposure table, designed for screen printing. I also use a plate burner, also used in the screen printing industry. That one is used for carbon transfer. I have a set time, depending on process. Exposures are always consistent. I've never used a UV measuring device.