Print dryer question

[Derek Lofgreen]

I bought one of those print dryers that has the crome surface and a cotton canvas that stretches over the print. It works great on RC prints, drys them in a snap. The problem I am having is with Fiber prints. It seems to make the emulsion glossy with some funny texture spots. Any ideas on why this is? Too hot? Not hot enough? Face up?

Thanks.
D.

 

[PHOTOTONE]

Most people these days dry "glossie" "F" surface paper by air, and this leaves a semi-glossy surface, rather than a mirror-glossy surface. The chrome surface of a heated dryer is designed to impart its mirror-like finish to the glossy paper, but it is difficult to achieve perfect gloss. Back in the days when this type of finish on prints was popular, one had to be careful that the prints were not too hardened by a hardening-fixer, and one would soak the washed prints in a solution of Pakosol to prior to putting on the dryer to help get better gloss. To get the most perfect gloss, you need to really roll the prints down hard onto the glossy plate or drum, and this drum has to be extremely clean and polished. There used to be a polish made to clean and polish the chrome surface, called Ferrotype polish.

Now-a-days, for most purposes, people just dry their prints face-up, and get the semi-gloss surface just like air drying. In other words put your paper on the heated dryer surface with the image side away from the heated surface, and facing the cotton canvas that stretches over the print.

McCluney Photo

 

[pentaxuser]

Derek These are interesting observations in that all the books I have ever read on drying always have said that this type of dryer is for fibre only and that RC is in danger of melting in such dryers!

Does it give a glossier finish to glossy RC paper than would be the case if you simply put the glossy RC to dry in the normal heated racks for RC paper

pentaxuser

 

[Neal]

Dear Derek,

Your dryer is not meant for RC paper. As for drying FB paper, it will work well if you want a really glossy surface. If your dryer surface has any nicks or scratches, those will show up on your print surface.

Start with a low temperature and a very clean surface. A roller is nice to get all the water out from between the print and the dryer. When the print is dry, it will pop off the dryer on it's own. Experiment with the temperature until it works for you. Some folks have had good results preparing the drying surface with a product called "Paksol". Go to www.pakor.com and search using "Paksol". Search APUG using "Ferotype" or "Ferrotyping".

When drying non-glossy you must remove any excess water from the surface of the print or those areas might actually become glossy.

Good luck. With a good drying surface you can end up with a print that is even shinier than RC paper. If you don't want a shiny surface, air drying is the better choice.

Neal Wydra

 

[jstraw]

When I used those dryers, I'd squeegee FB papers onto the surface but know that many prefer rollers.

NEVER use these dryers for RC paper!

 

[Derek Lofgreen]

Thanks for the info. I have the directions and it does indeed say that RC papers can be dried on it. It says to make sure to dry them face up twards the canvas though. It seems to work just fine.

I have a nice rubber roller that I will play with on getting these fiber ones to dry supper glossy. I kind of like it but I need to figure out how to do it reliabley.

D.

 

[eric]

I dry RC and fiber on mine. Just don't put the emulsion side on the metal side. I like the way glossy fiber comes out, almost like aired dry but without the curl.

 

[ANelles]

I use a drum drier like you described in my schools lab. I was also told never to put RC in it, it will melt.

I dry my FB prints face down (face to the canvas) and the prints come out looking the same as they did going in, just dry. If you do face up you get that really glossy look.

 

[Ole]

RC paper won't melt - that was the very first "plastic" papers.

I do my FB prints face to the canvas, just like everyone else.

 

[john_s]

I have found sometimes that when I dry fibre prints facing the canvas I get some particles of canvas/cotton fibre on the prints that are hard to brush off. Maybe it depends on the quality of the cloth. Or maybe it's too hot, making the emulsion a bit soft.

The cloth must be kept clean. I suggest occasional soaking in an enzyme cleaner (to remove gelatin traces) and then in hypochlorite (diluted!!!) to remove fixer traces. I use very dilute swimming pool liquid hypochlorite rather than laundry products since the latter contain detergents and maybe other things. Be aware that chlorine bleaches will eventually destroy natural fibres, so do this sparingly. I do it once every couple of years, and also when I bought a new print washer which I think improved the effectiveness of my washing.

Kodak used to sell Glazing Solution and I tried it to do ferrotyping 30 years ago. I found it difficult to get completely uniform results, but when it worked it was impressive at the time. Nowadays if I wanted that look I'd just use RC glossy. But I prefer a less glossy surface now.

 

[dancqu]

The cloth must be kept clean.

I'd think there would be more use of a print overlay
material. Underlay as well for that matter. Then
fasten down with the dryer cloth. Dan

 

[don sigl]

As has been stated previously. The dryer is not meant for RC papers. If you are using it with RC and getting away with it, I guess there is no harm. (although I was told never to do this). FB prints should be dryed face up unless you want them ferrotyped. Then you can dry them face down. However, its tricky. The paper needs to be perfectly sealed to the metal, and the metal has to be perfectly clean to prevent the problems you are having. I found it to be nearly impossible to ferrotype fiber prints on these type of dryers.

 

[Derek Lofgreen]

Guys the directions say I can use RC paper. That wasn't my question. I have gotten it to work now. I use a rubber roller and roll it down on the dryer. It seems to work very well.

Thanks for all the input.

D.

 

[kwmullet]

Guys the directions say I can use RC paper. That wasn't my question. I have gotten it to work now. I use a rubber roller and roll it down on the dryer. It seems to work very well.

Thanks for all the input.

D.

Derek,

I'm quite interested in your results. Are you saying that with fiber paper (doubleweight? What type?) and no pakasol or other softening solution, you just roller the print, emulsion-to-chrome, and once the print makes the revolution on the dryer and comes out the other side, it is uniformly glossy, with no surface pits or crackeling? Does the print pop off of it's own accord, or do you have to peel it off?

This is the issue I joined APUG to ask about in the first place, back in Jan 2004, and though I've received satisfactory answers to numerous questions and learned tons about photography and made great friends in the mean time, I've yet to get a satisfactory answer to my initial question -- how do I get a mirror glossy surface on fiber base paper?

I've got two chrome glazing dryers gather dust in my darkroom -- one double-sided convex, one rotating drum. I've got a can of Gamblin Cold Wax Medium gathering dust in my equipment cabinet and a gallon jug of Pakasol gathering dust on a shelf in my laundry room.

I've started irritating the clerks at the local art store and anyone I know who might have lithographic knowledge about using lithographic varnish, now.

This has become a holy grail of sorts for me -- a hundred mile a gallon carburetor, an unsweetened bottled iced tea.

Is the magic piece of the puzzle only that the prints need to be rollered onto the chrome drum? Which paper are you using?
​

-KwM-
​

 

[jolefler]

C'mon folks, cut to the chase!!! I use MG fibre, roller 'em on and still see pitting and occasional surface crazing. Based on what kwmullet says, I don't think budget considerations will allow for "preparations". My gloss attempts do "pop off" when dry, though, that's cool.

Since I usually need to do some spotting, it looks like I'll stick with emulsion to fabric. I have a second small dryer to be rid of, incidently.

 

[Saganich]

I never glossed a print without some minor crazing. Probably a tension vs speed vs heat thing. My ultimate issue was the emulsion sticking to the canvas. Very nasty. I believe this was an emulsion softness issue so watch the kind of fix you use - when I switiched to a non-hardening fixer I couldn't use the dryer anymore. I never actually confirmed there was a relationship.
Chris

 

[Derek Lofgreen]

Well here is what I am doing, your mileage may vary.

Wash the print, duh. Then I squeege it off with one pass of my squeege, Then I take the print face down on the crome and use the rubber roller to roll in down a little at a time. The dryer is set on about 1/4 of the heat. There aren't any temp readings or settings on my dryer, just a high and a low. It takes about 30 minutes or longer before the print is dry. I pop the canvas off to look and once the print pops off the chrome by itself that means it's "done". I think having a lower heat, longer dry time and the roller may be key to a glossy print.

Hope it helps.

D.

 

[Max Power]

Anyone have any thoughts on how to prevent the little bits of fibre from the canvas from sticking to the emulsion on FB Papers?

Cheers,
Kent

 

[jolefler]

Clingons..

Yech!

I've tried using a 8 1/2X11 paper over an 8X10....unsucessfully, I might stress.

I'm wondering if a smooth, tightly knit fabric (silk?)between the print & canvas might work?

 

[tim rudman]

dryers for sale

just as an aside on this - I have stopped using dryers as I prefer to air dry for toning reasons, so I have about 4 20x16 dryers surplus to requirements.
I have never put them up for sale but if someone in UK needs one (or more) make me a reasonable offer. I think these will become harder to find soon.
I don't want to highjack this thread so contact me by PM if interested.
Tim