PanF+ spots with Rodinal

[ras351]

Hi,

I figured it was about time I found out what the fuss is about with Rodinal so after finding a bottle last week I ran a 35mm roll of PanF+ through it a couple of hours ago. Initially I was impressed but after a closer look noticed I had some infrequent spots, rather like Lith printing pepper grain but more sparse (maybe a spot every three frames or so). I've never had this with my usual ID-11 and I'm wondering if it's a dud roll of film or something in the water reacting with the developer. I use rain/tank water which usually doesn't cause problems but perhaps Rodinal is more sensitive than ID-11. It occurs along the film edge as well so it's not exposure related. Does anyone have any ideas as to a possible cause?

Roger.

 

[mario Ag+]

I'm not positivly sure but I think maybe air bubbles attached to the films surface during development can cause what you are describing. What was you agitation technique? What dilution did you use? Are all the spots the same in shape?

 

[ras351]

Hi Mario,

Thanks for your response. I don't believe the problem is air bubbles (but I've been wrong before) as the spots are developed silver and look much like you see with random infectious development (fully developed grain clumps of varying but smallish sizes). My agitation technique is four inversions at the beginning of each minute followed by a tap on the bench (for 12 minutes). Dilution was 1+50 which may be borderline come to think of it as I only used 5ml of developer (250ml total) for the roll. I'll try a roll tomorrow in a larger tank with more active solution to see if that works.

Thanks,
Roger.

 

[gainer]

I doubt you'll find any difference in overall density. I have developed many rolls with only 250 ml of 1+50 Rodinal. Look for suspended particles in the working solution before you pour it in the tank, or run it through a coffee filter. I'm only guessing. Rodinal stock is pretty concentrated, and if stored cold might precipitate a "few crystals" which would take a while to dissolve in the working solution, causing local differences in activity.

 

[Lee L]

Dilution was 1+50 which may be borderline come to think of it as I only used 5ml of developer (250ml total) for the roll.

I've been processing films including Pan F and Pan F+ in Rodinal 1:100 for 25+ years with 3 ml of stock per roll of 35mm film. I know a number of others who have done so as well with no problems. I'd think that 5 ml per roll is unlikely to be the cause of your problem.

Sorry, but I can't think of any other cause off the top of my head, and I've never seen the problem myself. I'd try distilled water on a roll if I were testing. Maybe try a pre-soak as well, even though I know Ilford recommends against it with their films.

Lee

 

[reellis67]

I have used the same dillution myself with Pan F+ and never seen this type of problem so I would agree with Lee that is seems unlikely to be the source.

- Randy

 

[modafoto]

DOn't give up on this combo. It is a great match!

Morten

 

[ras351]

Thought I'd better update this thread even though I'm still having a few problems and need to do some more testing. I think I've resolved my initial problem by switching to distilled water - although I'm still seeing some dark spots in certain areas of the negative, until I print them I'll guess that they're legitimate - at least I'm not seeing anything untoward in the blank or grey card photographed areas of the film.

Unfortunately one roll processed seemed to end up with some brownish spots and the other one, in addition to a couple of the brown spots, had the emulsion flake off in the sky of one frame and a very nice but dense and unnatural air bubble ring in another. I also processed some FP4+ in ID11 with the same stop, fix and general processing regime and they turned out fine so I think I'm being given a sign. But before I throw in the towel for my next trick I'll try 1+25 and reducing the development time to see if that helps.

Roger.

 

[glbeas]

What is your rain tank made of? Could be you have metal contamination in the water from corrosion of the tank walls. Have you tried distilled water yet?

 

[df cardwell]

Weird. Rodinal is really a POWERFUL developer. 1+200 should do fine, but take a while. If anything, I'd expect the D-76 ( calling a spade a spade ) to be more delicate than Rodinal !

Rainwater SHOULD be great. Is it Agfa Rodinal, or another version. Is there a pH thing going on with something in the rainwater ?

GAINER ! PE !!! HELP !!

.

 

[ras351]

I'm not entirely convinced the problem is with Rodinal - it may just be Murphy trying to sidetrack me but I can't figure out why I'm not seeing any problems when using ID-11 given everything else is the same. The rainwater tanks are concrete and have been there for about 15 years so I don't think it's them. Part of the roof has been replaced recently due to an extension so this is an obvious candidate however for the Rodinal processing I did yesterday I used distilled water which should have avoided any water related issues during development. Rainwater was still used in the stop/fix/rinse and wash aid. Perhaps it's something occuring post development but why is it showing up as increased density? I'll have another look at the ID-11 processed film to make sure its truly problem free but nothing stuck out before when I had it on the lightbox with an 8x loupe. BTW the roll with the tiny air bubble like mark was processed 1+50 with 10ml for the roll and it was similar to the other two rolls processed with 5ml, same dilution, so I don't believe I'm exhausting the developer. My switch to 1+25 is a grasp for straws.

Roger.

 

[ras351]

Aha...

Now that my eyeballs are about fried I've managed to find one guilty looking microscopic brown spot in half a dozen recently processed rolls of FP4+/ID-11. No sign of infectious development like the first Rodinal roll but perhaps that was a one-off contamination issue related to the water. My apologies to Rodinal - it looks like Murphy was indeed at play - and playing multiple games to boot. Now I'll just try to find where the brown spots are coming from and I'll be happy.

Roger.

 

[df cardwell]

I KNOW you didn't spill the beer into the rainwater.....
.