Numbers...

ChristopherCoy · Nov 21, 2012

How do some of you come up with your sales price for a particular size print? Lets go with an 8x10 for example.

When I've figured a price for a digital print in the past I've calculated the cost of the editing time per hour, hard materials cost for the print (i.e. albums, prints, gallery wraps), packaging, shipping, and any extras included, and then I've used that total in my pricing formula.

But the hard cost isn't always going to be the same with an analog print. One print may have taken 4 rolls of film to capture, while another may have taken 7 rolls to capture. One print could take 12 test prints, while another could take 25. So this hard cost can change from print to print, which would affect the ending sales price.

I've taken down my business web site, and from here on out will only have a web presence to display my work, but I would like to have prices and sales information at least written down somewhere for those times that I do attract the occasional client. I'm trying to get back to the hobby of photography, instead of the job, which is why I'm taking down my business site.

batwister · Nov 21, 2012

8x10? $80

Klainmeister · Nov 21, 2012

16x20? $320

TheFlyingCamera · Nov 21, 2012

I just come up with a standard number for a given size. There's also a world of difference between the why of pricing for a print sold to a portrait client and an editioned print. With "commissioned" prints, there will always be some that you'll lose money (or at least break even on) because they're hard to print. But that's why you do your proofing at small sizes and take good notes . I'd say figure out what the "average" print you make costs you in terms of time and materials: put a value on your time (an hourly rate), multiply your hourly rate by the time it takes to make a print (and by that I mean account for every second from when you pull the negative out of the sleeve to when you put the print in the final wash), add up your materials cost, double that, and add it to the hourly price. Don't forget to include your chemistry, electricity and water costs in he material cost.

ChristopherCoy · Nov 21, 2012

How did you come up with that number? Whats your hard cost on that price?

Did you get that 16x20 on your first try, or did you have to use 5 sheets as test prints? If it was a client session, do you figure in the price of the single frame of film, or the entire roll, or the entire brick of rolls?

TheFlyingCamera · Nov 21, 2012

Do yourself a favor if you're going to be printing for someone else's end consumption - get an analyzing timer or at least an enlarging meter. It will cut down significantly on waste.

ChristopherCoy · Nov 21, 2012

TheFlyingCamera said:
put a value on your time (an hourly rate), multiply your hourly rate by the time it takes to make a print (and by that I mean account for every second from when you pull the negative out of the sleeve to when you put the print in the final wash), add up your materials cost, double that, and add it to the hourly price. Don't forget to include your chemistry, electricity and water costs in he material cost.

That's how I normally do it, except its backwards. I take my hard cost from the lab, multiply by three, and add an hourly rate. That generally gives me about a 35% profit which is what PPA suggests a brick and mortar studio should be making. Of course now that I don't have a studio, that percentage should be a little higher.

cliveh · Nov 21, 2012

10" X 8"? $100.

Ian Grant · Nov 21, 2012

Pricing only has a little to do with the material costs and if you're selling prints then these wouldn't normally be the first final print off the negative. If you're having to make a dozen or more test prints then there's something wrong with your negatives, and you should be getting a higher success rate than 1 good image every 4-7 rolls of film.

Price is about what you feel the market will stand for your images, you might also take onto account what others (similar to yourself) are selling images for.

It's rare that it takes me more than 3 sheets of paper to achieve an exhibition print, but I can read negatives which comes from experience so I know where to dodge & burn before I start and I can usually judge the contrast needed as well.

The secret is getting good negatives by good control over exposure and development, it's not difficult but a little effort to nail your personal EI's and Dev timses for one film under various conditions means you can concentrate on the photography knowing once capture you can get excellent prints.

Ian

removed account4 · Nov 21, 2012

a lot of people use $1 / square inch as their method ..
it depends on your market, and how much you want to make in profit.
charging 3x cost is also a way to do it ... ( cost + over head + profit = price )

ChristopherCoy · Nov 21, 2012

Ian Grant said:
.... and you should be getting a higher success rate than 1 good image every 4-7 rolls of film.

I know how to pretty much nail my exposures with an in camera meter of course, and for my manual cameras I'm getting better. I always try to mentally figure it out before using my incident meter, or another camera.

But what I meant is that if you usually use 7 rolls of 120 for a client session to photograph different poses or locations, do you cover the cost of those 7 rolls by your session fee, or by print sales? Some people use the session fee to only cover their time, and if you're using 7 rolls of film and the client only buys one 8x10 then you're actually loosing money...

Ian Grant said:
The secret is getting good negatives by good control over exposure and development, it's not difficult but a little effort to nail your personal EI's and Dev timses for one film under various conditions means you can concentrate on the photography knowing once capture you can get excellent prints.

Ian

I had done this with TriX to a degree that I could get predictable results, but ever since the big news I've been intent on moving to Ilford films and chemicals. I dont see any point in continuing my efforts to learn the nuances of Kodak stuff if there's no guarantee it will be around for any further extended period of time.

markbarendt · Nov 21, 2012

There are a variety of ways to price things.

Professional Photographers of America publishes much current info, mostly for portrait and wedding studios but a reasonable guide.

Typically prices are determined by a ratio related to "cost of goods sold" (COGS) based on what successful studios do. For film based work 30% COGS is normal. (For digital studios, 20% is a normal COGS number, digital doesn't really cost less, depreciation is 10% greater.)

So, if the cost of your labor and materials for production is $30 a sales price of $100 is normal.

So for a sitting/session with proofs it will cost me about $30 per roll; film, postage, developing, proofs, and scans. So my rate is $100/roll that I shoot.

Prints, same basic deal. Labor plus materials is 30% of the sales price regardless of print size.

My labor costs (for pricing) are based on market rates for the work involved. For me that means simply "what it would cost me to hire the same work done at a high quality lab". Doesn't matter if I'm personally slower or faster doing the same work.

MattKing · Nov 22, 2012

ChristopherCoy said:
I know how to pretty much nail my exposures with an in camera meter of course, and for my manual cameras I'm getting better. I always try to mentally figure it out before using my incident meter, or another camera.

But what I meant is that if you usually use 7 rolls of 120 for a client session to photograph different poses or locations, do you cover the cost of those 7 rolls by your session fee, or by print sales? Some people use the session fee to only cover their time, and if you're using 7 rolls of film and the client only buys one 8x10 then you're actually loosing money...
I had done this with TriX to a degree that I could get predictable results, but ever since the big news I've been intent on moving to Ilford films and chemicals. I dont see any point in continuing my efforts to learn the nuances of Kodak stuff if there's no guarantee it will be around for any further extended period of time.

Price your session fee to match your typical costs. If you will typically use 3 rolls, base your materials cost calculations on that.

In most cases, if you need 7 rolls it will be because there are more than the usual number of good things happening in a session, not more problems, so print sales are likely to be better.

And I would suggest staying with the materials that you are still learning. If you develop the ability to attain good, repeatable results with Tri-X, it will be much easier for you to transition to HP-5 Plus.

Bob Carnie · Dec 7, 2012

For gallery Prints consider this

Gallery will take 50 % you will be required in most cases to provide image and frame.

If you are selling a image in a 30 x40 frame for $1500

then you will recieve $750

minus the cost of print and frame lets be super conservative and say $300

therefore the gallery recieves $750 - they handle the rented space, marketing and bring the client list
you recieve $450 - supplying the framed pieces

If you do not like this arrangement of funds up the price of your work and do the math.

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