Newton's Rings / Tmax100 & Rodinal

Shawn Dougherty · Jan 2, 2008

I've been doing some reading here but haven't found a specific answer yet so forgive me if this is duplicated somewhere on APUG.

I've been contact printing for over 4 years now and have never had a problem with Newton's Rings. I've used various films and Pyrocat HD. Recently I began shooting from a box of Tmax 100 4x5 film, developed in D-76 my contact prints were fine. I developed a group of six (in a slosher) in Rodinal and the negatives looked great. I've tried printing these negatives but so far I've gotten Newton's rings with the first three. I used my dichroic enlarger as a source, with and without filters and Ilford MGFB and Kentmere Kentona and got rings regardless. The tones and sharpness look really nice and I have a ton of Rodinal (more than I'll use with my limited roll film output) so I hate to give up on it.

Should I try an extended wash? Maybe a bare bulb?(Though I hate to do that because I like to split grade print my difficult negs). Is this typical, that some film/dev combos produce rings? Any thoughts or suggestion would be appreciated.

Happy New Year! Shawn

menglert · Jan 2, 2008

I cannot comment on the extra wash, nor developer & film combinations. Although, I had issues with Newton Rings, and solved it by using a slightly frosted framing glass purchased from Michaels. I don't recall the name, but look for it at a framing shop, and you'll notice it because the glass seems somewhat foggy.

Haven't had Newton Ring issues since.

Lee Shively · Jan 4, 2008

I've always heard atmospheric humidity is the cause of Newton rings, not the chemistry used for film processing. I've had problems with Newton rings with glass carriers in enlargers but solved the problem by replacing plain glass with Anti-Newton ring glass. It's not cheap but it has saved a lot of aggravation for me.

Shawn Dougherty · Jan 7, 2008

Well, I tried the extra wash just in case I had put too much photo flow in the rinse and I'm still getting the rings. I've checked and all other negatives are printing fine, only Tmax100 in Rodinal is giving me the rings... weird. I guess the solution is in frosted or Anti-Newton ring glass. I'm going to ask someone else that uses this film/dev combo with 4x5 and see if he ever contact prints the negs. I will post the answer here in case anyone else is interested.

Trevor Crone · Jan 7, 2008

I've had trouble with 4x5 T-Max 100 and Newton Rings. It's an interference pattern caused by moisture traped between the surfaces of the glass and film. The best way to solve it is to use AN glasses. I infact use both for the upper and lower glasses of my neg. carrier.

A short term solution is to use something like a hair dryer on a warm setting on both the film and glass.

A think films like T-Max suffer more then most films is because of its 'shiny' emulsion, it's very smooth so makes a good contact with the glass thereby trapping moisture.

Another possible solution is to cut an aperture mask to fit over the negative. This should just be thick enough to prevent the upper surface of the negative comming into contact with the glass.

I had success with this method while I was awaiting the arrival of the AN glass.

Shawn Dougherty · Jan 8, 2008

Thanks fellows. Sounds like it's best to get the an glass and forget about it. Does anyone have recommendations for ordering Anit-Newton Ring glass? I have a Bostick-Sulivan contact frame with apox 9inch x 11inch glass.

Vaughn · Jan 8, 2008

Shawn, do you pack in extra material in the contact printing frame to make it tighter? I usually do this for the B&S contact printing frames for pt/pd and carbon printing -- BUT -- I found that I have to remove most of the extra packing (2 to 4 ply mat board) when making silver gelatin contact prints due to the rings. Reducing the pressure reduced the rings.

The rings are caused by having two very smooth surfaces touching -- especially if there is uneven pressure across the surface (which can be caused by trapped water moisture). Over-packing the contact printing frame, in my case, seemed to put more pressure directly under the springs than the rest of the frame...thus increasing the rings.

Good luck finding a solution!

Vaughn

Lee Shively · Jan 8, 2008

I bought ANR glass from this place to fit a 35mm negative carrier:

http://fpointinc.com/glass.htm

They can provide custom cut glass if necessary.

Trevor Crone · Jan 8, 2008

Shawn,

I forgot to mention in my last post that the aperture mask I cut to provide just enough space between the glass and film surface, was cut from a sheet of clear acetate. So being clear, for contact printing this will allow printing of the film rebate.

Good luck in finding the ANR glass.

Trevor.

shinjuku · Jan 8, 2008

I use TMAX 100 about 95% of the time. When I "moved in" to my new darkroom I was having a heck of a time with newton rings. (I do enlargements) Regular glass, AN glass, emulsion side,non emulsion side, it did not matter. Tetenal used to make an anti newton ring spray but it is no longer sold in the US. However, there is an anti newton ring spray by a company called Scannex that is made for scanners. Although it is not cheap- $40 a spray can- it works. Instead of spraying it directly on the film though, what I do is put it on the glass. I sprayed some in the air and pulled my negative holder through it to just put a bit on the glass (just like someone might do with perfume) Then I let the spray dry and it has worked great. It dried completely, leaves no residue on my film and I have even had less dust problems since I have used it. While the can was expensive, I imagine it will last me for years as I have not had to reapply yet after a few months use. If you google it you should find a place or two to buy it.
Good luck to you. I know how frustrating this problem can be.

Shawn Dougherty · Jul 9, 2008

I solved the problem by cutting a piece of non-glare framing glass down for my contact printing frame(textured side touching the film of course). It definitely seems to be a issue with the Tmax100 though. I never had a problem with regular glass and any other film. Thanks for all the help! Shawn

FYI, I only contact print my lf negs and do not use a glass carrier with 35mm.

Jim Noel · Jul 9, 2008

If you are contacting there is no need for ANR glass. Non-glare picture frame glass works well.

Newton's Rings / Tmax100 & Rodinal

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