New to film! Excited, confused, need help!

[bvy]

Most likely, the image you tried to upload is bigger than the 850 x 850 pixel limitation for APUG. Resize and then retry.

I think that only applies to gallery uploads. I'm not sure what the issue is.

 

[hellosnails]

hmm don't think it'll let me upload... maybe i can send a link to the image?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTthKtHhhrs/?taken-by=ohsnails

 

[MattKing]

I think that only applies to gallery uploads.

It applies to within thread uploads as well. There is an automatic re-sizer, but it will only work within limits.

 

[MattKing]

hmm don't think it'll let me upload... maybe i can send a link to the image?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTthKtHhhrs/?taken-by=ohsnails

It looks like the results you get when you have an under-exposed negative, and the scanner tries to compensate.
Note the lack of texture or detail in the black sections of the back of the woman'e jacket.
However.....
It may be that the negative has sufficient exposure to give a better looking darker image, if the scanning software wasn't trying to force the results into an "average" level of brightness.
Scanning is something we intentionally don't discuss here on this analogue only site, but it and its inter-relationship with film is often the source of problems. It takes good equipment and good skills to properly extract useful scans from film.

 

[Photo Engineer]

And remember, the higher the speed, the higher the grain. This is also true with digital. The entire phenomenon is related to noise.

PE

 

[LAG]

To make one thing clear (I saw a Video titled :10 things you shoun't Do with film)

I think what you shouldn't do is watch videos about things you shouldn't do

So it is no way to switch (don't know what kind of camera you use-maybe an older slr) to switch the botton of ASA/DIN with the film you have in use.

Yes, you can

Think of it like this: x is the sensor speed. Your digital camera sensor in reality has a "native" speed (usually ISO 100 I believe). The same is with film, it has an inherent speed, which we call "box speed".

ISO speed is not the same as EI and not always the same as Box speed just like d-g-t-l sensor "native" speed is not always 100 and not always the lowest and not always the same for every camera either

The amplification is kinda like development.

No, it is not, not even kinda like

Turning up the amplification on a sensor does increase the sensitivity.

It does not

...The one problem, though I seem to be running into is like this image of mine... (if it attaches)

the green cast/flat/muddy quality is something I'm trying to stray away from.

So, if I picked up an ISO 800 speed film, and shot at 800, all else equal, should give me standard results? Does the image from above look like I should have left it in the developer longer?

Assuming that the films you're using are fresh, the one problem I see here is yours (...) not the films themselves, no matter the ISO. Do you know how to evaluate a colour negative? I am talking about taking a look at it thoroughly before the film/d-g-t-l step, and not about judging a positive image on Instagram. By changing films (ISO, push, pull ...) you will not fix your cast/flat/muddy quality problem. (IMHO I recommend) forget all about the list above. As in almost everything that is done in the darkroom, you must stick to a constant process and vary one by one the variables to study yourself what happens the best way, and that includes film/negative in the first place. Do you know how to carry out a colour correction with a colour negative? ... blah, blah, blah

In any case, if you really want to know what happens you should have answers to both questions at least.
Best of luck!

 

[jernejk]

No, it is not, not even kinda like

Well, it is. But it amplifies shadows badly, or not at all

 

[trendland]

And remember, the higher the speed, the higher the grain. This is also true with digital. The entire phenomenon is related to noise.

PE

Just have a look

 

[trendland]

Just have a look

Just have a look at the ISO rate of modern full frame dslr's.
They are between ISO 100.000 and
ISO 200.000.
Some manufacturers recomanded
ISO 400.000 - ISO 1.000.000 ?
Latest models have ISO speed up to
ISO 2.000.000 - ISO 4.000.0000.

without any grain - of cause so.


with regards

 

[Helinophoto]

Hi snails, and Welcome Aboard.
After five or ten years you'll know enough to start experimenting.
- Leigh

You say a lot of sensible things, but the above is just........wow, talk about discouraging new people from attempting to have some fun while learning.

You can experiment from day one, but you will have little or no knowledge or control, but it doesn't take a person 5-10 years to get the hang of things.
It all depends on what you mean by your statement; If he is going to "experiment" with a 0.1% margin of error, yes, 10 or even 20 years will suffice, but to get to the "good enough" level (where most of us are), 2-3 years is enough, it's not exactly black art or brain surgery to get usable shots with film after all.

Two good beginner-rules:
- Do NOT underexpose your film, shoot at box speed.
- When experimenting, keep it simple and don't change more than one parameter at a time.

I would recommend the book "Way beyond monochrome", since it is much easier to grasp for beginners and it is very well illustrated (and it also covers over/underexposure and over/underdevelopment) among loads of other things.

 

[trendland]

I think what you shouldn't do is watch videos about things you shouldn't do.



Yes, you can.


Well - this video was indeed of a little
interesst to me to understand what people may thing coming from digital
equipment first to film.

And I would say this is the confusion of
hellosnails.

Sure we can't follow - but you may have
missunderstood my reply.

There are people who are thinking they
can push there film by changing the
adjustment of ISO within the camera.

And they would have a second chance
to push their films in a lab in cases when
they decide to push it after their shooting.

So as with the work they have learned with their dslr.

And that us not possible as I now.


TO PUSH THE FILM IN THE CAMERA BY
CHANGING THE ISO SPEED WITH THE
ASA/DIN BOTTON.
With older film camera equipment.

Or Do you realy meant this goes ?

It is a simple missunderstanding.

But I have had an idea that this is exact
ONE of the problems of hellosnails.

And we should try to understand him.
No easy job to us - of cause we are a little confused now.


with regards

 

[trendland]

And remember, the higher the speed, the higher the grain. This is also true with digital. The entire phenomenon is related to noise.

PE

Just have a look

 

[trendland]

Sorry to have a little smartphone problem again.

pls. click to "expand" to see my reply
to your statement (firefox crashed...)

with regards

 

[Helinophoto]

1.) 400 @ 400, developed at 400 -> Box speed, normal contrast

2.) 400 @ 800, developed at 400 -> Underexposed, loss of shadow detail, normal contrast.
3.) 400 @ 400, developed at 800 -> (I assume you mean you develop for longer) Overdeveloped, increased contrast, risk of loss of highlights in BW, color still ok.
4.) 400 @ 800, developed at 800 -> One stop push, loss of shadow detail, increased contrast.

5.) 800 @ 800, developed at 400 -> (I assume you mean you develop for shorter) Underdeveloped, less contrast, highlights are less dense.
6.) 800 @ 400, developed at 800 -> Overexposed, normal contrast (more shadow-detail, risk of loss of highlights with BW, color still ok)
7.) 800 @ 400, developed at 400 -> Pull 1 stop, Overexposure, less contrast as highlights are less dense.

5.) 400 @ 200, developed at 400 -> Overexposed, normal contrast (more shadow-detail, risk of loss of highlights with BW, color still ok)
6.) 400 @ 200, developed at 200 -> (I assume you mean you develop for shorter) Pull 1 stop, Overexposure, less contrast as highlights are less dense.
7.) 400 @ 400, developed at 200 -> Underdeveloped, less contrast, highlights are less dense

Am I completely overthinking this? I only worry that, because I like to shoot fast (1/500 of a sec for quick moments, with a relatively big DOF), I push the film from 400 to 800. My shots seem to be underexposed, flat and murkey with green tones.

Yes.
You need to identify the differences between over and underexposure and over and underdevelopment.

Color film doesn't like underexposure, very simple, Portra should handle 1 stop under, but you cannot be sure if you really are, unless you meter carefully, cameras do strange things.

What would these variables have on a film like Portra?
Thank you!!

Portra handle overexposure very well.
You can most likely shoot portra as a 200 ISO film, 100 ISO film and even as a 50 ISO film.
If you shoot it as a 800 ISO, it should handle it, but when you get to 1600 and onwards, it gets muddy pretty quick.

Even though you tell your camera that the 400 ISO film is 800 ISO, you can still underexpose shots, making them efficiently EI 1000 AND EI 1600, then you have underexposure AND underdevelopment if you develop for, say 800 (that is low-contrast, low density, muddy and ugly).

You need better glass and bigger apertures to get the speed you want. (or simply use *D* )
I don't know where you are shooting, but in the summer, I consistently need to use 1/1000s with Vision3 50D (50 ISO) and f2.0-f2.8 on a normal day.

Don't underexpose your film. (if you see the above notes, you can see that you have listed the same scenarios several times).
Know:
- Overexposure
- Underexposure
- Overdevelopment
- Underdevelopment.

They are usually covered in most books concerning film.

 

[Chan Tran]

I see no reason to push or pull color film. Film is slow enough so there is no need for pull. When you push film the speed is still not high enough and pay big penalty in quality so high ISO is better left to the darkside.

 

[trendland]

I see no reason to push or pull color film. Film is slow enough so there is no need for pull. When you push film the speed is still not high enough and pay big penalty in quality so high ISO is better left to the darkside.

Yes hellosnails you got it.
Color negativfilm has today great tolerances. A bit like sw film in the past.
Lets say 3 stops over, 1 stop under and 1 stop with correct exposure.
So it seams to be meant. 5 stops tollerrance.But dont be as sure.
TO have original quality you have to exposure correct. Let us say max. 1 stop over and max 1/3 stop underexposure.
Thats fine.
with regards