New processing problem

[mark]

Info:
BPF200
tray processed in 500 ml pyrocat HD 2:2:100 14min to accomodate reciprocity exposure.

Here is the issue. I tray processed four negs at the same time with not a scratch or problem. Beautiful job. I patted myself on the back and was feeling confident, so I got the negs for the neg excahnage out and went for two at a time to insure no problems. Put the first neg in the soup-much more developer than was necessary- and pushed it under the fluid, emulsion down. Put second neg in the soup and did the same. I rotated the two negs maybe three times and they fused together. I mean melded into one neg. I do my best to keep the negs even so I do not hook corners It took maybe a minute to coax them apart but the damage was done. One neg gave up a huge chunk of emulsion to the base side of other neg. I did not know this because the lights were off. I finished the development and fixed the negs. When the lights were turned on I pitched the bad neg cuz I was mad as hell. The other one I decided to try and get the emulsion off the back of the neg. It took some doing but it came off without affecting the good neg. PEC 12 rocks.

What the hell happened?

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

BPF 200. One downside of the films manufactured in Eastern Europe seems to be that the emulsions are fragile.

I'm not quite sure how I manage to avoid it, but I suppose there is probably some subtle aspect to the tray processing technique to prevent sticking. I presoak films like Efke and ClassicPan to remove the blue dye--this may be a factor. I put the sheets in emulsion side up, patting them down gently with the balls of my fingertips, and when shuffling I slide the bottom sheet out and slide it back in with a kind of sweeping motion from the front of the tray to the back of the tray, lifting up the leading edge so that it doesn't scratch the next sheet as it goes in. I also rotate the sheets 90-degrees periodically.

 

[wm blunt]

Did you presoak before development? I find if negs are not presoaked in a waterbath they are more likely to fuse together when put in developer. Also make sure each neg is completely soaked before adding the next one or you're in trouble both in presoak and developer. You probably are already aware of this. Sometimes I think an air pocket can cause the water or developer to not reach the emulsion and causes a "dry spot" and that's where the problem starts. Just a theory.
Good luck

 

[mobtown_4x5]

If anyone knows why this is a bad idea please speak up......

...but I have found that a drop (one) of LFN (photoflo) in the presoak water helps get the nice "slimy" feel I like for my tray negs. I usually do 4-6, but I got away with 8 a few times. Got cocky, tried 12 and got away with it one time.

One of the reasons I just bought a bottle of TF-4 is to see if I can keep that slippery "base" feel going, I hate the way the negs become "squeaky clean" when they hit an acid stop.

I know this sounds kind of nutty, but trying to keep things slippery in there helped make the twelve-neg world record a reality (sorry I have been watching the Olympics)


Matt

 

[mark]

Thanks for the replys so far.

I presoaked but not for anything longer than a minute, maybe less.

I did not add photoflow but I like that slimy feel too, maybe I'll start. How has TF-4 worked. Does it keep the slippery feel.

When I put the emulsion up I have been getting scratches, and since I have started putting the emulsion down I have had none.

The theory of an air bubble sounds pretty good. The stuck emulsion was circular, I forgot to mention that.

I did some negs after this in my new (old) unicolor tube and I got good results but I still seem to have a fondness for tray developing, but, you know how it goes, once bitten....which is why I have given up on the BTZS type tubes for now.

 

[juan]

I'd also recommend thorough pre-soaking. I've always done a minimum of two minutes, and I do it in a large container of water, such as a Rubbermaid dish pan. I give plenty of room for the negatives. I have not had negatives stick since adopting this method.

Never tried the photoflow.
juan

 

[lee]

I, too, use the LFN thing but I generally put several drops in the Presoak and stir it up. They don't stick together that way.

lee\c