new problem with lots of dust

jgcull · Jul 22, 2009

I have a problem I've never had before, and I'm not sure why. The last few times I've processed film the negatives have had lots of very fine dust that shows up terribly on prints. If I rinse these cut negatives and hang to dry, they're better. I'm rinsing the same way I always have when I process, so what could be the problem? I usually hang the negatives to dry in my shower, and I have recently with this problem. Last night I processed film and hung it in my darkroom. Same problem.

THe only change has been that we recently changed from well to county water. That shouldn't make a problem like this, should it?

I process, rinse, stop, fix, use perma wash, rinse in running water, then rinse in distilled water. I hang the negatives with clothes pins on a coat hanger, in the shower. We're careful not to sprinkle anything (like baby powder) in the bathroom when negatives are hanging. It's the same process I've always used. What could be causing the problem that I'm missing?

Thank you.

Bob-D659 · Jul 22, 2009

Vacuum, wet wipe down and damp mop before processing might help. Do you have an a/c system, are the ducts and filters clean?

Ian Grant · Jul 22, 2009

It's most probably the water, I've had similar problems recently for the first time in 40+ years of neg processing and it's definitely the water, I get calcium scum on the surface if I run a bath

I have a water filter jug (back in the UK) and that will solve the problem taking out sufficient Calcium. You need soething similar or do your final rinses wuth de-ionised od distilled water.

Ian

Ian

dancqu · Jul 22, 2009

jgcull said:
... then rinse in distilled water.
I hang the negatives ...

My last rinse is in distilled + a little PhotoFlo.
After hanging, a PhotoFlo wetted 8 blade film
squeegee is drawn slowly down the film's
length. Film dries FAST. The eight blade
is not a cheap squeegee but a well
engineered tool which I highly
recommend. Dan

mike c · Jul 22, 2009

I've got very hard water here,so after the wash in hard, scummy city water,let film set in a distilled water bath rinse to dilute the scummy water and then a second distilled water bath with photoflo hang to let dry. That won't help with dust though,for dust wipe down darkroom and turn on air cleaner before starting processing.

glbeas · Jul 22, 2009

Are you getting fresh air from outside? If so think pollen. Anybody been cleaning carpets or upholstery?

JBrunner · Jul 22, 2009

Evaporate a small amount of your water, and see what's left. As Ian opined, its likely the culprit, as that is something that changed. I too filter all my water through one of those charcoal filter jugs.

Tom Kershaw · Jul 22, 2009

I've had recent issues with calcium deposits on my fibre base prints, although the problem is intermittent. My darkroom water is softened and then goes through a particulate filter. The standard water hardness is nearly 380 milligrams per litre calcium carbonate according to Anglian Water.

Tom

George Collier · Jul 23, 2009

Looks like you are from North Carolina - is the air conditioning coming on more recently, and is the film drying location in the path of a supply vent? You could try turning off the AC during drying next time. Just a thought - it's happened to me.

jgcull · Jul 23, 2009

Hi George, We do get lots of powdery light dust (almost like construction dust or drywall dust from sanding) but we always have. I dried these rolls in 2 separate places. Usually I hang them in the shower, but I've hung the last 2 rolls in the darkroom. It's getting more puzzling to me, because I just found a roll that looks pretty alright and was developed over the wk-end... which is right between the rolls that were bad. I hate it because I've got several more rolls I really need to do, and need to turn out right. I hesitate to move forward!

jgcull · Jul 23, 2009

I've scanned & posted a print in the gallery, so you can see the spots.

Ian Grant · Jul 23, 2009

Difficult to see a problem ?

Ian

wogster · Jul 23, 2009

jgcull said:
Hi George, We do get lots of powdery light dust (almost like construction dust or drywall dust from sanding) but we always have. I dried these rolls in 2 separate places. Usually I hang them in the shower, but I've hung the last 2 rolls in the darkroom. It's getting more puzzling to me, because I just found a roll that looks pretty alright and was developed over the wk-end... which is right between the rolls that were bad. I hate it because I've got several more rolls I really need to do, and need to turn out right. I hesitate to move forward!

Take a small glass dish, put some water in it, just enough to cover the bottom, cover with a coffee filter, put in a nice sunny location in the house. When it's dry, check the dish, there shouldn't be anything in it. If there is, you may want to use distilled or demineralized water instead of tap water for your final rinse.

If it's aireborne, then it's time to look into obtaining a film drying cabinet, make sure it has a HEPA filter on the air intake. It's fairly easy to build one, although you sometimes see them on fleabay and other auction type sites.

jeffreyg · Jul 23, 2009

I second Tom's observation = calcium carbonate. Attach an appropriate filter to the rinse supply. You can probably remove the "dust" from the film with a dilute acetic or (possibly hcl) acid solution then rinse with distilled water to salvage the affected negatives but test with one you would otherwise discard. I had this problem once in my dental office with city water. They eventually did something and the problem stopped.
Jeffreyg

jgcull · Jul 23, 2009

Here's what I did this afternoon. I strained my developer through 3 coffee filters. I discarded my fixer and mixed new, straining fixer through coffee filters and mixing with distilled water.

I selected a roll of unimportant 120 film, and processed it using a rinse of distilled water before I went to next step. While I did wash the film in tap water, I ended by letting the film stand for a bit in distilled water, dumping, and rinsing again in distilled.

No spots on this roll! ~whew~

By the way, it hung to dry where it always does - in the shower.

Thank you all for your input. I never expected so much trouble at such a time as this - 1 week before I have to turn in prints for an exhibit!

mike c · Jul 23, 2009

Well ye ha!! I'm glad this worked,I had a problem with some lite scum on negs then started useing a 2 bath rinse of distilled water at the end and it helped clear it,I would imagine a water filter would help also.

dancqu · Jul 24, 2009

jgcull said:
I selected a roll of unimportant 120 film, and processed it
using a rinse of distilled water before I went to next step.
While I did wash the film in tap water, I ended by letting
the film stand for a bit in distilled water, dumping,
and rinsing again in distilled.

Now that's what I recommend. The first wash after fixer,
not the last wash, should be distilled water. Of course
it hurts none if the last wash is also distilled.

The reason: Paper or film are loaded with dissolved
silver and other partially spent chemicals. Any one
or more of them can interact with water born
contaminants causing surface and within
emulsion precipitation.

Really clean water? No problem. Dan

mike c · Jul 24, 2009

Dan,haven't thought about using distilled water after fix,I will give it a try. My thinking was that since the water here is so crappy I figured the it would take at least two distilled water baths to dilute the bad stuff out be fore drying,and it did help a lot for me. I suppose a filter inline would also help.Thanks.

Mike

wogster · Jul 24, 2009

mike c said:
Dan,haven't thought about using distilled water after fix,I will give it a try. My thinking was that since the water here is so crappy I figured the it would take at least two distilled water baths to dilute the bad stuff out be fore drying,and it did help a lot for me. I suppose a filter inline would also help.Thanks.

Mike

If you use the Ilford washing method, then even if all washes are in distilled water it's not that much water.

mike c · Jul 25, 2009

The Ilford method I think is kind of like what I use for both film and prints. Putting prints in a series of water baths increasing the time in each one,thus saving water and hopefully make archival.

Mike

jgcull · Jul 25, 2009

Can you explain the Ilford method of washing for both prints and film? (Forgive me, if you're thinking - "go look it up for yourself".) Actually, I will go look it up. )

jgcull · Jul 25, 2009

Here it is:

"Ilford recommends a water-saving washing procedure which, if it is adequate, saves a lot of water and allows using water from a bottle at room temperature rather than from the tap. The procedure requires using a non-hardening fixer. After fixing, the tank is filled with water and inverted five times, drained and refilled and inverted 10 times, and finally drained and refilled and inverted 20 times. That's it."

Good grief, that looks too easy. Does it work adequately?

Sirius Glass · Jul 25, 2009

This is a subject of controversy. Kinda like which end of the egg does one open [Johnathan Swift, Gullivers' Travels].

I use Hypo Clearing Agent [to save water, I am in southern California] and rise according to Kodak.

Steve

wogster · Jul 26, 2009

jgcull said:
Here it is:

"Ilford recommends a water-saving washing procedure which, if it is adequate, saves a lot of water and allows using water from a bottle at room temperature rather than from the tap. The procedure requires using a non-hardening fixer. After fixing, the tank is filled with water and inverted five times, drained and refilled and inverted 10 times, and finally drained and refilled and inverted 20 times. That's it."

Good grief, that looks too easy. Does it work adequately?

I think a lot of people have done it over the years and been happy with the results. Some people will add a step though, to get this:

Fill with water, invert 5 times, let sit for several minutes, dump, fill, invert 10 times, let sit for a few minutes, etc. I've used this method and added an extra 20 inversion step. Seems to work okay. For a 350ml tank it means using only 1,400ml of water.

Running the tap, for 30 minutes can use over 50 times that amount. If you buy a 18.9L (5 US Gallon) jug of distilled water, mix up a Litre of developer and fixer that still allows you to wash 12 rolls of film, for a very reasonable price.

dancqu · Jul 26, 2009

mike c said:
Putting prints in a series of water baths increasing the time
in each one,thus saving water and hopefully make archival.

If separator sheets are used twixt the prints when tray
washing there is a greater assurance of uniform washing
of the entire sheet. No agitation is needed. The method
occupies little of one's time but soaks are lengthy.
My last is over night. Long soaks use water
MOST efficiently.

The separator sheets I use are of a light weight
non-woven polyester, batting, available at any
fabric outlet. Dan

new problem with lots of dust

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