NAGAOKA or tachihara

[stompyq]

HELP!! me choose which camera to buy!! I have the oppurtunity to buy a used NAGAOKA 4x5 camera for $300 it's in less than excellent condition but does function. Since i have been looking for a LF field camera i tried searching about it and got minimum results. From what i saw it's REALLY light. How is it regarding movements for landscapes? My previous experiance has been primarily with 35mm,6x7 and 645 photography and this will primarily be used for landscape and hiking etc. Before i got this deal i was looking at a tachihara which seems the ideal fit for me. I see that new it goes for $595 at badger graphic. Is it wise to buy the NAGAOKA? or should i just get a new tachihara?

 

[BradS]

I guess it all depends upon how weight sensitive you are. If you want a piece of history or really insist upon having the lightest 4x5 wood field available, get a Nagaoka. If you actually want to use it and have something that will last a while, go for a Tachihara or Shen-Hao.

 

[stompyq]

Thanks brads. Why do you say that? Is the NAG really filmsy? I didn't get a chance to try the camera so wouldn't know. I did come across a similar camera the Ikeda anba, that seemed to be really good. Are the two similar or is the ikeda much better?

 

[cperez]

The Nagaoka and Anba are very similar, except in a few details (like wood choice and plating of the metal parts). What you see with one, you'd certainly be able to expect the same from the other.

The Tachihara offers a few more movements than the lighter weight cameras. I have an Anba (and used to own a Tachihara). The Anba travels with me in my carry on when I fly overseas. It's very light and provides the kinds of movement I think I need (like front rise). It's not as versatile as a Arca Swiss or other full featured camera. But when nothing but 4x5 will do... the Anba is just the ticket. If all I had was a Tachihara, I'm sure I could get something pleasing out of it too.

A friend as a Nagaoka. When in good condition, these are fine tools for making fine photographs.

...Is the NAG really filmsy? I didn't get a chance to try the camera so wouldn't know. I did come across a similar camera the Ikeda anba, that seemed to be really good. Are the two similar or is the ikeda much better?

 

[stompyq]

Thanks chris. I read the article you had in your site about the anba and thats what seems to sway me towards the nag. Let me be specific about my situation. I currently have a nikon D70 that i take with 3 lenses to the feild. I want to supplement these with the NAG not replace them. So really the final kit will be very dependent on the weight. Most importantly i travel to my home country of Sri lanka every year. This is why i found your article so intresting b/c india is really similar to sri lanka. According to your review the movements were not problematic. How about the durability? Will the camera be able to survive overseas trips?

 

[Wyno]

Wyno

I used to have a Nagaoka, and it lasted me twenty years with no maintenance at all. It eventually broke when I forgot to tighten the tripod head enough with a 400mm tele on it. Last year I replaced it with a Shen Hao which is twice the weight but has way more movements and is much better constructed. The only thing I really miss from the Nagaoka is that it had a fresnel screen and was easy to focus. Hope this helps.
Mike

 

[stompyq]

Thanks mike!! You all but convinced me to get the Nagaoka!!I did look at the shen hao but it looks way to heavy for my use.

 

[Bill Mitchell]

I have a Nagaoka. purchased new in about 1975. Mine is still in near-perfect condition, but they're pretty fragile, and wouldn't consider buying one in "less than excellent condition." Go for the new Tachihara -- you'll be glad you did.

 

[Sportera]

I use a Tachihara, I love the camera but I wish I had shift sometimes. Especially when doin symetrical photographs. Other than that it has been a great camera.

 

[dmax]

stompyq,

I have both. Like Chris, my 4x5 travel kit is built around the Nagaoka/Anba Ikeda. I have had it for close to twenty years and was my first field camera. It is not as robust as my Tachihara. There are tradeoffs that come with a very lightweight 4x5 camera, such as less-than-ideal degree of rigidity. Something which I have come to accept and work with since LF work is slow and deliberate anyway, and where attentive work methodsl are always required. Despite these tradeoffs, and for the most part - I'd say at least 95% of the time - the Nagaoka/Anba does the job for the kind of shooting that I do. You just have to be more conscientious working with it compared to working with the Tachihara. My only real complaint - if it can be called that - is that it is very easy for anyone to lose the tiny knobs of the Nagaoka/Anba in the field, since they have no retainers to keep them permanently in place. Haven't lost any yet, but nearly did several times. No fun groping around thick grass trying to dig them out from where they're hidden.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Stompy -

As a Shen-Hao user who has travelled extensively with it, the weight difference between it and a Tachi/Nag/Anba is not that great. The camera weighs 6 lbs, vs the 4 of the Tachi. The robustness of it, in my opinion, more than makes up for the weight difference, and since the camera lives in my backpack when it is not on a tripod pointed at something, I really don't notice the weight.

On a different note:

Wyno, if you want a brighter screen for the Shen-Hao, the Canham GG and Fresnel fit perfectly, and are user-changeable. Fred Newman at The View Camera Store sold me a set and I swapped it out on my Shen, and it has worked like a charm. I'm actually quite spoiled by it, and I find the GG on all my other LF cameras to be too dim by comparison.

 

[Scott Peters]

I wouldn't worry about the weight between the two as it is minimal and can easily be 'made-up' with one less lens, ready load vs. film holders, a lighter bag, etc.

While both brands will allow you to 'make' great images...I would spend the extra bucks, as I found the more you enjoy using the camera, the more time you will spend with it. I have owned the Tachihara and now own an ARCA Discovery and can recommend the Tachihara for field work. The Shen Hao is also a nice choice.

 

[ReallyBigCameras]

If you can find a Nagaoka or Anba-Ikeda in good shape, and your intent is to use it for backpacking (or other travel applications where weight and bulk are concerns), I say go for it. I've had both. I started with a Nagaoka (with chrome plated hardware nd a black bellows) and "upgraded" to an Anba-Ikeda (shiny brass plated hardware and red bellows). Other than the color scheme and name, the only real difference is the top rear focus is geared on the Anba and not on the Nagaoka. This is no big deal as you can still use the front geared focus for fine focusing. This "feature" adds a couple ounces to the weight.

If backpacking is your goal, it's tough to beat the Nagaoka/Anba-Ikeda. Not only is it extremely light (between 2.5 and 2.75 lbs), but it also folds up smaller than any other 4x5 camera I've ever seen. This means it takes up less space in the pack than other cameras. As a backpacker, I tend to be an ounce counter and to me the difference between a 2.5 lb. camera and a 6 lb. camera is very significant. The lighter camera also means I can use a lighter tripod and head combination as well - it all adds up. Currently, my camera, tripod and head have a combined weight of 6 lb.

Of course, I also minimize the weight of my other photography items (carbon fiber tripod, magnesium ball head, 3 or 4 ultralight lenses, Quick/Readyloads, etc.). When I first started backpacking, the total weight of my 4x5 camera gear was 25 lbs. That included a 6 lb. Speed Graphic. These days it's about 1/2 that - around 12 - 13 lbs. and that includes enough film for a 4 day trip and the daypack I carry the camera gear in. I'm not as young as I was when I first started backpacking with a large format camera, and believe me, my knees,back and shoulders appreciate the weight savings.

About six years ago, I upgraded my backpacking camera again. These days, I use a Toho FC-45X. After a few simple modifications, I got the weight down to the same 2.75 lb. neighborhood as my old Anba-Ikeda. The Toho has about 3" more extension, full front and rear movements and is more rigid than the Anba it replaced. It also cost 3x what I'd paid for my Anba. IMHO, the Toho is the best 4x5 backpacking camera around. That said, many of my all-time favorite images were made with the Anba.

I wouldn't recomend the Nagaoka/Anba as a general purpose 4x5 camera. When weight isn't an issue, I prefer a camera with a longer bellows, more movements, smoother operation, better ease of use and greater rigidity. However, for backpacking, it's tough to beat (unless you buy a Toho). For this reason, I always find myself owning two 4x5 cameras. One for backpacking and one for everything else. It used to be the Anba combined with a Wisner Tech Field. For a while I tried a Canham DLC as my ONLY camera, but then decided to go back to a two camera system - the Toho combined with a Linhof Technikardan TK45S. These days I'm using the Toho for backpacking and very long day hikes and an ARCA-SWISS F-Line Field for everything else (the ARCA chassis also serves as the base platform for my 4x10 and 7x17 cameras). I find this gives me the best of both worlds and is the ultimate evolution of all the camera combinations I've tried over the years.

In any case, if I didn't have the Toho, I wouldn't hesitate to go back to a Nagaoka/Anba for my backpacking camera. It's not pefect (no camera is), but it's plenty good enough and excels as this particular application. Just don't overspend on one. If you're patient, you should be able to find one in excellent condition for around $400 - 450. Anything higher and your getting close to the cost of a new Tachihara.

As far as durability, I used my Anba for backpacking for 10 years and never had a problem. I just wrapped it in my darkcloth and tossed it in the daypack with my other camera gear. Other than an occasional loose knob (as dmax mentioned), I never had any problem. If I still had it, I'd probably just dab a little clear fingernail polish on the threads near the end of the shafts to keep the knobs from falling when the camera is bouncing around in the pack. After 10 years of pretty heavy use, the finish on the camera showed signs of use, but it still worked as good as the day I bought it. Again, not the camera for all users or all uses, but a pretty good match for your intended application.

Kerry

 

[sanking]

In any case, if I didn't have the Toho, I wouldn't hesitate to go back to a Nagaoka/Anba for my backpacking camera. It's not pefect (no camera is), but it's plenty good enough and excels as this particular application. Just don't overspend on one. If you're patient, you should be able to find one in excellent condition for around $400 - 450. Anything higher and your getting close to the cost of a new Tachihara.

Kerry

I share Kerry's positive evaluation of the Nagaoka. I have been using a Nagaoka 5X7 for over twenty years and absolutely love it. It is extremely compact and light, which for me are the paramount considerations in this format. In fact, if there was anything out there that satisfied my needs better I would buy it in a second, but my 5X7 Nagaoka is as close to the perfect cameras as I every expect to find in this format for general purpose landscape photograhy.

Size difference between the Nagaoka and the Tachhihara is of coure greater in 5X7 than 4X5.


Sandy

 

[terra firma]

lost focus knob

It's too bad I didn't see your response earlier as I lost the right front focus knob on my Anba Ikeda camera a couple days ago. Do you know where I might get a replacement knob?

 

[John Kasaian]

In a word:----"bellows" Does the Nagaoka have the bellows length to accomodate the focal length lens you plan on using?
That would be the first question I'd ask

 

[sanking]

It has been about two years since my last reply to this thread, and I still have my 5X7 Nagaoka and have no plans to get rid of it. In the past two years it has been with me on several trips abroad and as always the light weight and very compact design (about 7.5 X 7.5 X 2.5, and about 2.75 lbs) make it an ideal 5X7 when weight and space is at a premium.

Since my last response I have owned several other 5X7 cameras, including a Shen-Hao, a metal Canham, and a wood Canham. These cameras had many interesting features but in the end they simply weighed more and took up a lot more space than the Nagaoka, so they were not right for my needs.

People constantly say that the Nagaoka is fragile. I guess that is true if you were to drop it on a rock or on concrete. But my Nagaoka is going on 30 years old and it is still very sturdy and sets up quite rigid.

Bellows draw for the 5X7 is limited, but I can focus a 300mm Nikkor-M at close distance, and that is about the longest lens I like to use with the format anyway.

Sandy King

 

[Matus Kalisky]

Hi,I have been using a Tachi 4x5 over last two years with a success. The difference to Nagaoka to my knowledge is that Nagaoka does not offer swing on the rear standard.

You should think of the lenses you want to use. The Tachi is great for field work. I have used 125, 210 and 400 (tele from Osaka) lenses with it, though the tele was a bit stretch concerning the stability. I have recently started to use a Grandagon 75/4.5 and found out that even with recessed lensboard I can not achieve full movements the lens would allow for. You may or may not need large movements with wide angle lenses - depending on your style.

Concerning the tability the Tachi remains stable with lenses up to ~ 240 focused to infinity. For longer lenses I would consider only one of the f/8 - f/9 process lenses (Nikkor M, Fujinon C, etc) and care should be taken to avoid vibrations (wind etc.).

One more point - if you want to do a close up work - you want to get a caemra with focusing on the rear standard. Both tachi and nagaoka use front standard focusing.

For the above reasons I am considering changing my Tachi for something else (Chamonix 4x5 sounds like an interesting option).