Mamiya M645 what tells the camera what insert you have in?

cinejerk · Apr 3, 2012

I know this is probably a stupid question

I think there are some kind of tabs on the inserts that tell the camera if you have a
120 or a 220 insert in it.

Just thought I would ask anyway. Not finding much searching.

Thanks

MattKing · Apr 3, 2012

You are mostly correct.

For those cameras that do not use interchangeable backs, it is the camera that senses the difference between the inserts and adjusts the counter accordingly.

For those cameras that do use interchangeable backs, it is the interchangeable back that senses the difference between the inserts and adjusts the counter accordingly.

In both cases, the only thing the photographer needs to do is remember what film they have in them.

cinejerk · Apr 3, 2012

Hi Matt
This camera is an old manual focus M645. It has inserts only. No removable backs on this one.

I think I found it. There is a small plastic triangular piece on the 220 insert and the 120 does not have it.

The triangular piece is held on by two screws. That's the only difference I can see visually.

It must push something on the camera, setting the the counter for 220.

wblynch · Apr 3, 2012

One thing I like about M645 inserts is the flip tabs that make it so easy to change film.

Funny, I never look at the frame counter. I just keep going until the film runs out and put in the next one.

If I did forget what film was in there it wouldn't bother me. I like surprises.

Alexis M · Apr 6, 2012

i took that little plastic thing off my 220 insert and it took nice focused pictures with the 645J, i have yet to compare it to my recently purchased 120 insert that came with my 645 1000s though. if you dont remove it you will shoot blanks after 16.

cinejerk · Apr 6, 2012

Thanks for that reply Alexis M

That is exactly what I needed to know.

I was thinking of making a 220 style 120 film.
If you cut the paper right behind the leader and then tape on a trailer.
That way you wouldn't have to worry about the paper backing problem.
I know it's a major pain but then using a 220 back wouldn't be a problem.

You have to be really careful when shooting blanks

If your shutter fires on that last little bit of folded trailer paper it will be destroyed !!!

cinejerk · Apr 7, 2012

Well I guess since they aren't going to produce 220 anymore I'll just have to chuck my inserts.

I really don't like using 120 with it's old fashioned paper backing.

brucemuir · Apr 7, 2012

cinejerk said:
Well I guess since they aren't going to produce 220 anymore I'll just have to chuck my inserts.

I really don't like using 120 with it's old fashioned paper backing.

In the US you can still get some kodak C41 stock in 220.
I just checked the recent Portra 400 price increase and got sticker shock on a propack of Portra 220.
Yikes, although I realize we still are lucky, price wise compared to many other places.

snederhiser · Apr 7, 2012

Hello;
The only difference between the 120 and 220 inserts is the plastic wedge on the 220 insert. This is easily removed by two screws turning it into a 120 insert. The plastic wedge is a interlock to allow the counter to go to 30 frames. Last time I checked Fuji sells color film in 220. Hope this helps, Steven.

cinejerk · Apr 7, 2012

Hi Steven

Yep, I now know about the little plastic wedge.
But I thought there was a difference in the film pressure plate
to make up the difference of the paper backing thickness?

MattKing · Apr 8, 2012

cinejerk said:
Hi Steven

Yep, I now know about the little plastic wedge.
But I thought there was a difference in the film pressure plate
to make up the difference of the paper backing thickness?

The difference in the pressure plate is there as much to protect the insert as it is to ensure flat film - 120 film puts more pressure on the plate's springs.

It is the film gate that plays the most important roll in ensuring that the film is where it belongs.

snederhiser · Apr 8, 2012

Hello;
I just pulled out my inserts and made a close inspection. The springs appear to have the same tension. The 220 insert has two grooves machined in the pressure plate about the depth of paper backing to allow this to drop into the film channel. The 120 insert is flat across the pressure plate. Hope this helps, Steven.

cinejerk · Apr 8, 2012

I see what you mean about those grooves snederhiser. I wonder what those do? Hold the backingless film closer to the rails?

I don't really plan to run 120 film in my 220 insert. I am going to try to make sort of 220 half rolls. Cut the backing paper just after the film starts and then tape the end of the paper on the end for a trailer.

Since I can't find fresh 220 film other than color neg I don't really have a choice with the 220 insert.
I don't really like the paper backing on 120 film anyway.

As far as processing problems goes I plan on doing all my own. Can't find anyone worth a hoot locally anyway.

cinejerk · Apr 13, 2012

120 in a 220 insert

Well ran my first roll of 120 film through my 220 insert yesterday.

220 is getting so difficult to find anymore. I know I should just get a 120 insert but...

For some reason I just don't like the idea of the paper backing all the way through.

I removed the little plastic wedge that controls the counting dial. Then I cut the paper

behind the leader tape and remove all the paper behind the film. Then taped on a trailer

piece at the end of the film. Worked perfectly.

Why do I do things like this? Innovation? Probably not !! Just cheap? Probably.

I guess I was always one that likes to buck the system.

Mamiya M645 what tells the camera what insert you have in?

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Mamiya M645 what tells the camera what insert you have in?

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