Making Iflord Warmtone, Warmer

Discussion in 'Darkroom Equipment' started by gerryyaum, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. gerryyaum

    gerryyaum Member

    Messages:
    475
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Location:
    Canada
    Shooter:
    Med. Format Pan
    Started printing some of my sexworker images on the 16x20 Ilford Warmtone FB paper (from a 8x10 tri-x neg). I initially tried Ilfords own Warm Tone developer diluted 1/9 for 4 minutes. I toned the image in Selenium 1/10 for 2 minutes.

    I ended up with a only slightly warm image. I want a warmer tone without resorting to some kind of brown toner. I want to acheive a warmer tone with a developer/selenium combo. Any suggestions on a developer that might help me get a warmer tone with this paper? How will different Selenium dillusions and times affect the paper?


    Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Gerry
     
  2. Steve Sherman

    Steve Sherman Subscriber

    Messages:
    551
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2003
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    I use a developer I mix myself called GAF 135 and have always liked the warmth it gives me. ANother way to warm up an image is to add a bit of Potassium Bromide as a restrainer.

    Likely the biggest gain you will realize will come from length of time in developer. If you increase your exposure so that the image is correct with around 60 secs. in developer the image tone will warm considerably.
     
  3. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,453
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Also dilute the developer more than normal and increase the exposure. I prefer to use Ilford ID-78 with warmtone papers. GAF 135 is just another name for Agfa Ansco 135.

    Ian
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2009
  4. eclarke

    eclarke Member

    Messages:
    1,970
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Location:
    New Berlin,
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Tone it in the selenium longer, 6-8 minutes. Test one and just leave it until it kicks over...EC
     
  5. TimVermont

    TimVermont Subscriber

    Messages:
    462
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Location:
    Boston
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    This seems counter-intuitive, but I've had good results from using Ilford WT in a normal strength mix of Edwal Ultra Black or Ilford (Harman) cool tone developer. Yes, these are cold tone developers, both. Then tone in very warm (28c) Kodak selenium toner mixed 1+9. The changeover to warm tone in the selenium is remarkable and produces a beautiful print to my eyes.
     
  6. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,453
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Tim, it's possible to get very much warmer results than with those developers.

    Ian
     
  7. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Subscriber

    Messages:
    919
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2003
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Just tone longer-the colour will eventuary warm up
    Mark
     
  8. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,453
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    If you overdevelop the prints the tones get much colder, 4 minutes sounds rather excessive. Ilford give times of 90 sends to 5 minutes to give control over the warmth, but you need the shortest possible time to get the maximum warmth.

    As times can sometimes be too short (some papers develop faster than others, under 60 seconds) it is often better to dilute as I said before - the dilution requires a longer dev time. Papers differ I've yet to use the Ilford Warmtone paper.

    Try developing for 90 seconds, it will require slightly longer exposures but you should get very much warmer prints.

    Ian
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2009
  9. eclarke

    eclarke Member

    Messages:
    1,970
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Location:
    New Berlin,
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    The Warmtone is my only paper now. I develop in 130 with bromide for warm and benzotriazole for neutral and use both KRST and Harman Selenium toner, the Harman will tone warmer....EC
     
  10. JRJacobs

    JRJacobs Member

    Messages:
    238
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2008
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    When I have used Ilford warmtone, I developed with Dektol followed by 8 mins in 1:9 KRST which yields a very warm tone with reddish brown colors.
     
  11. Toffle

    Toffle Member

    Messages:
    1,932
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Location:
    Point Pelee,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I was wondering pretty much the same thing a few weeks ago. I had just started printing with Ilford WT paper in WT developer and was concerned that I just wasn't seeing the effect I wanted. Well, last night I was sorting some prints and was surprised just how warm that paper/dev combination actually is. I suppose it might have been a clue when I gave a print to a friend to complete a series begun some time ago and the response was, "What happened? Why is it so brown? :D )"

    Cheers,
     
  12. OP
    OP
    gerryyaum

    gerryyaum Member

    Messages:
    475
    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Location:
    Canada
    Shooter:
    Med. Format Pan
    Thats why I love this site, so much knowledge here, so many people willing to help. I have a week to work on this print so will try several of the suggestions. Thanks very much folks...got to print this post and put it up on my darkroom wall.

    Gerry
     
  13. Colin Corneau

    Colin Corneau Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,949
    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Location:
    Brandon, MB
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Hey Gerry
    I printed all shots from a recent exhibition on this paper, and that developer (Ilford WT). I also selenium toned them. They were quite warm and appealing for what it was I wanted to do.

    Of course, only your tastes will determine what's "right" here. But I suggest you compare a print done that way with a 'normal' one and think about the difference; it may change your opinion.

    Also, I think a more marked effect will be had with different selenium toners, dilutions, and toning times. Certainly worth experimenting more with.

    Looking forward to your experiences and prints,
    Colin
     
  14. david b

    david b Member

    Messages:
    4,026
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Location:
    None of your
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Did anyone mention old, used dektol mixed with fresh stuff?
     
  15. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    7,142
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Location:
    Basin and Range Province
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    The longer you leave them in selenium the warmer they will get.
     
  16. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,453
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Not strictly true, the selenium is causing a colour shift towards red & also slight intensification, but unless the image is already warm-toned from the developer there will be less of a colour shift.

    Photographers like Thomas Joshua Cooper & Olivia Parker use the effects of selenium toning to the maximum.

    Ian
     
  17. xtolsniffer

    xtolsniffer Member

    Messages:
    532
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    Location:
    Yorkshire, U
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've found selenium toning warmtone paper gives quite a profound effect. I use fotospeed selenimum toner at about 1+7 ish, a few minutes and the prints are very brown on Ilford WT paper (temperature dependent - needs longer if it's cool). The effect on stadard multigrade is to make them cooler and slightly purplish I've found.
     
  18. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    19,453
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The OP is complaining that his prints aren't particularly warm-tone. When a warm tone paper is developed to give good to maximum warmth there is a profound effect in Selenium.

    Ian
     
  19. Bob F.

    Bob F. Member

    Messages:
    3,980
    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Location:
    London
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I use Neutol WA with MG-WT and it gives a strong warm tone, but I don't selenium tone so can't say what happens to it in selenium but the Neutol WA is very long lasting and economical. More dilution = warmer tone (but longer dev time as you would expect).
     
  20. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

    Messages:
    8,079
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2008
    Location:
    Los Angeles,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    FWIW, using Dektol or Ilford Multigrade, I have found that the glossy version of Ilford Warmtone, while one of my favorite papers, is not really very warm at all; just a little creamy in the whites, and extremely slightly warm on the silver; not enough to notice unless put next to a "regular" print. This extreme subtlety is one of the reasons that I love the paper so much, though its price is ridiculous to me. I only use it for certain pix because it is so expensive. The matte version shows much more warmth (brown). I have also found that the WT glossy goes to a pretty extreme burgundy-purple when toned to the max in KRST. It seems colder after the selenium, due to the purplish tint...or a weird cross between cold and warm. Reminds me a lot of some reject prints I have seen by Stephen Berkman, made using the salt printing process. Looks a lot like the color of the salt print on this Webpage, though notably more purple: http://images.google.com/imgres?img...firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2009
  21. eclarke

    eclarke Member

    Messages:
    1,970
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2004
    Location:
    New Berlin,
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    I haven't used any Dektol for a long time and I print the WT paper to almost neutral with 130 cool. Dektol + selenium gives nice chocolate tones...EC
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2009
  22. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    7,142
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Location:
    Basin and Range Province
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Not strictly true, the selenium will cause different effects with different papers and different developers. :smile: FWIW with this paper in my darkroom, LPD and extended KRST I can get it to match Polywarmtone (almost, in tone, but it isn't the same paper by any stretch. I spent a lot of time looking for a Polywarmtone replacement). Decidedly warm, not red. There won't be a definitive found because toning and tones isn't a world that clarifies in an easy way. FWIW with this paper I think there is a good chance that in this instance the OP will find selenium toning to be the key.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2009
  23. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Subscriber

    Messages:
    919
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2003
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Barry Thornton's 'Edge of Darkness' has som good info on this subject
    Mark
     
  24. Leon

    Leon Member

    Messages:
    2,076
    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
    Location:
    Kent, Englan
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I'm another voter for over exposing and under developing (either using time or dilution) to get very warm tones on this paper. Using Ilford Bromophen gives a richer browny tone than the Harman Warmtone to my eye. I use bromophen at 1:5 ish at around 22-24 deg and 2 minute devlopment time if I want warm.