List of Color Chemicals and Where To Get Them

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Greg Davis, Jul 25, 2011.

  1. bvy

    bvy Subscriber

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    That' exactly what you need. I don't think it's a substitute. I think it's been repackaged. I'll have to update my shopping list links.
     
  2. mshchem

    mshchem Member

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    I purchased separate Kodak Flexicolor 5 L bleach C41 RA, 5 L fixer C41 RA, along with 5 L LU developer , plus final rinse. I replenish the Bleach and Fixer, use the developer one shot, (Jobo).

    Is it cheaper to buy the cartridges? I think I will buy the F2 cartridge next time if I ever get through the stuff I have. That 5 L bottle of bleach will last forever, replenishment rate is so low. 5 L fixer only is 12 bucks on Unique. The powder kits are a joke compared to real chemistry. I've been using these C41 RA chemicals for last year or so works great. I don't shoot a lot of color. I need to capture the color of the holidays this year.
     
  3. Jake Ures

    Jake Ures Member

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    I've done my best to skim this thread for the pertinent information, but I just needed some clarification on some things. Hopefully there are other people who have similar concerns who will find this helpful.I just got my shipment of chemicals in from uniquephoto way ahead of schedule (they'll be okay to sit in the box a couple days to a week right?). I'm aware that the developer comes out to about 6.5L once the solution has been made, so 13 amber 500ml(b&h has photographers' formulary bottles with plastic caps) bottles should be appropriate to use for each batch of developer. Based on previous posts, bvy, you say that you use paterson tanks. Mine is the system 4--which when I've developed B&W I've used 500ml for 35mm/120, but I wonder if this is inefficient. Does the cost savings of developing this way greatly diminish because I'm using a Paterson tank, or do the savings really begin to matter when I'm only buying $15 of developer per batch while still using the same starter/fixer/bleach/final rinse?

    I'm also curious about storage for the rest of the chemicals. After mixing the entirety of the bleach and fixer, how should I store the chemicals not in use? After reading some of your responses, I read that my fixer should be around 2L once mixed 1+1 with water, but I should only need 500ml to work with, and my bleach will be roughly 1L when used straight. You guys seem less concerned with the storage for these, so plastic Datatainers ought to be fine, but will a ton of air ruin either one if I store them in half full 2L bottles? Same goes for final rinse--how much storage is needed and how should I store it? I plan on mixing all of my chemistry in one bucket and washing thoroughly between chemicals with different funnels. See any problems with that?

    After scanning the thread, I've gleaned that you mix the three part replenisher to make a 5L developer with 200ml starter and water. How long will this starter last, and should I transfer it to another container?

    Also, when it comes to water rinses with constant flow of water, do I need to make sure it's the same temperature as the rest of the chemicals because I don't think my tap will get that warm, and I'm using an immersion circulator to maintain the waterbath temps.
    Thanks for your help.
     
  4. WilmarcoImaging

    WilmarcoImaging Member

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    Regarding storage, the best materials to use are multi-layer wine storage bags with an EVOH layer (bag-in-box type) or PET beverage bottles (soda or seltzer bottles). This comment is made based on oxygen permeability of easily available packaging materials. I store all my chemicals in 1 liter PET beverage bottles. Try to keep them full to the brim. If you have a collection of 2 liter, 1 liter and 0.5 liter bottles, this should be easy.

    If by Datatainer you mean the traditional brown polyethylene (PE) plastic jugs, I cannot recommend them. This is because of PE's poor oxygen permeability, in comparison to EVOH bags and PET bottles. Time to retire (recycle) these brown jugs which many of us have used for many decades.

    Regarding final rinse, the latest packaging refers to "5L". Therefore 5 liters of storage are needed.

    I don't use a rinse with a constant flow of water. I use a plain water bath at 100 deg F for 3 minutes, with 2 inversions every 30 seconds. The rinses I refer to are between stop and bleach, between bleach and fix, and between fix and final rinse. All of my chemicals and rinses are done at 100 deg F. This is not strictly required by Kodak process C-41. I am surprised your tap does not achieve 100 deg F - this is not too much warmer than a hot shower. My taps achieve 125-130 deg F after sufficient warm up time. Have a look at your hot water heater temperature adjustment to be sure.
     
  5. bvy

    bvy Subscriber

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    I'll try to address everything. I switched to stainless steel reels and tanks a little over a year ago, but when I was using Paterson tanks, I believe 600ml (the size of my PET bottles) covered one 120 or two 35mm reels. I used the developer one shot, though I would reclaim it and sometimes use it a second time for test rolls or cross processing. That said, I plan to switch to glass, though when I was using PET, I would fill the bottles to capacity. Stored this way, I used it up to a year later with no signs of degradation.

    Bleach thrives on air. Separate a working quantity and store the rest as stock. Plastic bottles with some air space work best. Shake it up periodically. It lasts a long time.

    For the fixer, mix a 1+1 working solution and store the stock solution for later use. Plastic bottles with little air space work well. Do a clearing test periodically. It should last for a dozen or so processing cycles.

    I use a separate mixing vessel for developer, and another for everything else, but that's just me. Clean whatever you're using thoroughly, especially before mixing developer.

    Starter should keep just fine without any special preparations.

    Yes, your water rinses should be within a few degrees of the previous bath. I got away from using running water from the tap. It's wasteful and tedious to maintain the temperature. Now I fill a bucket with tempered water and do several fill-soak-dump cycles over three to five minutes. It's very much a "hands on" approach, but it gets the job done.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  6. bvy

    bvy Subscriber

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    Final rinse can be mixed as needed, and a working solution used several times. I would NOT mix all five liters at once. There's no advantage to doing so.
     
  7. Jake Ures

    Jake Ures Member

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    Thanks for this. Insanely helpful. So SS is more efficient, or is it just a preference thing? I like plastic tanks because that's what I've used my whole life, but if I could possibly be more efficient with my solution then I'd venture into learning.

    RE: your storage stock of bleach and fixer, that makes sense. I'll probably separate the stock into 1 or 2 plastic bottles without too much air space and the fixer into smaller glass bottles to be careful. Aerating the bleach only matters right before actually using it rather than some sort of routine maintenance on the stock right?

    I was considering filling some buckets for rinses. Good idea. My tap in my apartment takes 5-10 minutes to get above 80 or 90 degrees depending on how many people are using water in the building.

    Also, I usually just used my fingers and photo flo and rarely if ever got spots on my film because I was so afraid of scratching the emulsion with a squeege. What's the consensus for c41/e6?
     
  8. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    SS reels are wound "tighter" than the plastic reels, and the path for film is often shorter (120 vs 220), so they can fit in smaller tanks. Smaller tanks use smaller amounts of chemicals.
    Put two rolls of 120 into the same Paterson plastic reel, and the efficiency of the plastic reel system magically doubles.
    The 220 steel reels that are designed to fit in standard size steel tanks are really tough to load correctly.
     
  9. bvy

    bvy Subscriber

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    Stainless steel requires less chemistry to cover the same amount of film, so it's more economical in that sense (less chemistry or more film compared to Paterson tanks and reels). For C-41, it comes to temperature quickly, and temps are easier to maintain.

    I aerate the bleach before use and filter it periodically.

    Finally. and most importantly, do NOT use Photo-Flo as a final bath for C-41. You need Kodak Final Rinse or equivalent. It contains a wetting agent (like Photo-Flo) but also the required bacteriostats/fungistats to promote long term stability. Final Rinse is cheap and easy to use. It should be the last thing that touches your film before you hang it to dry.
     
  10. mshchem

    mshchem Member

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    Everything Matt and BVY say is correct. One thing to consider is replenishing your chemistry. Kodak publishes the replenishment rate for developer, bleach and fix. If you use replenishment all the tank issues go away. Make up 1 liter (or whatever size is convenient ) then use your divided fresh chemistry to replenish your "working tank" after each session. Kodak recommends one shot with rotary processing as it really aeriates the developer.
    The chemicals you are buying are for replenishing minilab tanks. There's no reason you can't make up your own "tank" and use it with any inversion or even open deep tanks. But if you insist on one shot developer and Paterson, learn how to feed 2 rolls of 120 on a single reel, it's easy.
    And don't forget you can buy 5 L batches of just the Flexicolor LU developer, 3 little bottles in a cardboard box, from Unique for about 12 bucks.
    I love developing film :smile:
    Best Regards Mike
     
  11. Jake Ures

    Jake Ures Member

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    So uh let me preface this by saying that I am a functional idiot. So I did what I always avoid which is to never try mixing chemicals during the day because just as I opened the fix, my friend gave me a call and wanted to meet in an hour, so I decided I had to mix the developer and fixer in an hour. So in my rush, I accidentally overlooked a step in the developer replenisher which was to mix A with water first instead of ABC with water. I went ahead and finished the rest of the process and it appeared to look okay—from a mixture that looked like pepto and chunky milk to a kind of syrupy yellow color. I split those into their bottles and went to do my fix. I ended up running out of bottles and had to use a clear mason jar for the last little bit. Should my developer and that clear jar of fixer be okay? I imagine fixer isn’t really light sensitive.

    When I go to do my bleach, even though it’s full strength, I’ll make sure to be more deliberate work slower.
     
  12. Jake Ures

    Jake Ures Member

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    Just an aside, did you suggest keeping the fix stock undiluted because it’s a more efficient use of space or because it isn’t advisable to store 1+1?
     
  13. WilmarcoImaging

    WilmarcoImaging Member

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    Is there a supplier of Kodak Flexicolor chemistry, similar to Unique Photo, located in the Illinois-Indiana-Ohio-Michigan area? In the area between Chicago and Detroit, and down to the Indianapolis area?

    I found Pakor in Minnesota, would like to find something more in the target area given above. Thanks for any replies.
     
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  15. Rolfe Tessem

    Rolfe Tessem Subscriber

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    I don't know of any in that geographic area, but you can order from these guys. They also ship from Rochester, NY.

    https://www.southpointphoto.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=126_158&page=1

    Kodak keeps changing the packaging of Flexicolor, so call them if you're not sure what to order.

    Rolfe
     
  16. WilmarcoImaging

    WilmarcoImaging Member

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    Thanks Rolfe.
     
  17. nevintagefilms

    nevintagefilms Member

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    Hi All,

    I am about to start with the above chemicals... hopefully tonight.

    My confusion lies in mixing. Can anyone tell me the procedure and ratios you use and when and how much starter to add? I want to make all 5 liters of the developer.... I think the instructions for that are pretty clear on the bottles. But when and how much starter do I add? That's very confusing.

    Thanks everyone for any tips!

    Dave
     
  18. qamaro

    qamaro Member

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    Hi Dave,

    I had similar questions a while back and I was provided this thread: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...-where-to-get-them.79069/page-13#post-1913684

    That link provides the chems and a PDF of Kodaks mixing guidelines for small tanks. I'd hit up @bvy if you have further questions but, that thread has pretty great info.

    Best Regards,

    -Marq
     
  19. nevintagefilms

    nevintagefilms Member

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  20. nevintagefilms

    nevintagefilms Member

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    Unfortunately this doesn't quite help me after all. What I really need is given the developer and starter what is the procedure and quantities for mixing it all together. That's where I'm lost.

    Dave
     
  21. bvy

    bvy Subscriber

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    The instructions clearly describe it except that you need to adjust for proportions if you're mixing everything at once. Assuming you're using the products listed in the link above, try this:

    Developer/Replenisher Solution:
    One gallon (3.78L) distilled water
    + ALL of part A
    + ALL of part B
    + ALL of part C (as instructed)
    + distilled water to make 5L.

    Starter Solution:
    200ml of bottled starter
    + distilled water to make 1.56L.

    (You'll will NOT use all of the bottled starter.)

    Add the 1.56L of starter solution to the 5L of developer/replenisher to make 6.56L of Working Solution C-41 Developer.

    The water should be warm but not hot. Mix each step for at least a minute. Store in thick plastic or glass bottles filled to capacity with airtight caps.
     
  22. nevintagefilms

    nevintagefilms Member

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    Ah! This answers my questions! My only question is how much water to add to the 200ml of starter before adding that mixture to my 5L of developer replenished.
     
  23. nevintagefilms

    nevintagefilms Member

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    Ah! Again! Thanks BVY!
     
  24. bvy

    bvy Subscriber

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    Always happy to help. Post or message me. Good luck.
     
  25. Kuby

    Kuby Member

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    Does anyone in Canada know a good place to source Kodak Flexicolor Fixer and Replenisher #6600027 ? I'm shooting enough that I want to move away from the F2 kit and buy separate bleach and fix. I'm also recognizing the rise in quality when not overusing either my bleach or my fix, meaning I'll be going through a bit more of the stuff.

    I can order Kodak Flexicolor Fixer and Replenisher #6600027 from BH, but since it's special order, they basically double the price for shipping.

    At UniquePhoto the shipping cost jumps about $100 US to ~$150 USD for some unknown reason, even though they sell it dirt cheap ~$10 USD.

    As previously mentioned UniquePhoto also charges an arm and a leg for shipping costs to Canada to begin with, at around $50 USD just to get started. Then I also have to pay duties on top of this. It's crazy.

    If anyone can point me to a good place to source Flexicolor chemicals in Canada, I'd be SO happy :smile:

    Best,
    Kuby
     
  26. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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,