Kodak sepia toners: One-shot or reusable?

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Rolleiflexible

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Okay, I know this must be a stupid question.
I am going up the learning curve with the Kodak
sepia toners and it occurs to me I have no idea
whether to pitch the toner after use, or decant
and reuse. I assume it lives on decanted but
maybe there's a reason to use fresh toner for
each print session. I see nothing in the literature
either way, so I turn to the experts. Thoughts?
 

Erik L

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reuse it, I think it is about 30 8x10's per quart. It is a visual thing so you should be able to tell if they are not doing the job they are designed to.
regards
erik
 

DKT

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one shot, unless someone else has experience otherwise. for me, it's always been use & dump.
 

DaveOttawa

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...I assume it lives on decanted but
maybe there's a reason to use fresh toner for
each print session. I see nothing in the literature
either way, so I turn to the experts. Thoughts?

Yes, you can reuse, the life is limited by the capacity (so many sheets/quart, packet has the details on it) and shelf life of the working solution, eventually it will cease working (at least the stinky toner solution) even if not used. IME it will survive several months in full, sealed plastic bottles.
If a very consistent degree of toning is a requirement it still might be best to start with a fresh mix for every toning session though, it is not expensive compared to the cost of paper and the time taken to get a good print.
One other comment: many printers (including myself) will add ~10% to the printing time for prints to be toned since they seem to lose a little density after toning.
 

Andrew Moxom

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Sanders... You can re-use both the bleach AND the sepia toner. They both have a lot of life. I am using one kit right now that's been going for nearly 5 months!!! One other thing... If you are using Kodak Sepia II kits. The bleach is VERY active. Using it at the kodak recommended dilution and time will practically irradiate your prints... Unless you are after that complete sepia look? I dilute the stock bleach down anywhere from 1:6 to 1:10 depending on the paper. I can bleach back highlights in 1:6 bleach with FOMA 123 Variant in about 20 seconds. I then keep the 1:6 mixed bleach in a container and just throw away a little bit 50ml and replenish it every couple of sessions. As for the toner, it can handle MANY prints and I usually discard it just as it starts to get a little cloudy. You will find that the print color changes almost immediately when placed into the sulphide toner, so it's very active stuff. I then usually tone in selenium afterwards to get a split tone look.
 
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One shot it. But save your prints until you get a decent quantity and then tone them all in one toning session. Don't have to keep track of age or quality that way.
 

pentaxuser

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Just a word of warning which so far no-one has mentioned. If this toner is of the sulphide variety as opposed to Thiourea then Tim Rudman in his book on toning warns quite strongly against using it in a room where you store unexposed paper due to its propensity to fog paper. Tim is not the kind to issue warnings unless there is a good basis for so doing.

pentaxuser
 

Bob Carnie

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Mixing from scratch makes one shot the way to go as it is cheap , cheap , cheap.
 

Chazzy

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Just a word of warning which so far no-one has mentioned. If this toner is of the sulphide variety as opposed to Thiourea then Tim Rudman in his book on toning warns quite strongly against using it in a room where you store unexposed paper due to its propensity to fog paper. Tim is not the kind to issue warnings unless there is a good basis for so doing.

pentaxuser

Which is Kodak Brown Toner?
 

Marco B

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Sanders... You can re-use both the bleach AND the sepia toner. They both have a lot of life. I am using one kit right now that's been going for nearly 5 months!!!

My experience too, I have used months old sepia toner without issues too. It is of the two step bleach / redevelop type (ferricyanide/odourless thiourea). I don't know about the two step version with smelly sulphide, nor about the polysulfide one bath sepia toners, but see little reason why they should be tossed immediately after use either if kept properly.

Is it just out of habit or anxiety that a few others here insist on using it one-shot only, or maybe a bit overzealous archival requirements (a bit strange in the light of considering sepia toning is probably already one of the most archival treatments)?
 

WolfTales

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On RC you can re-use happily - many times.

On fiber, the pulp tends to contaminate the liquid. So reuse - not so many times.
 

Bob Carnie

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Marco

When working on large projects I like the repeatability of fresh chems. I like them to react the same each time without considering extending times for the bleach step which is not a very precise visual experience.

My experience too, I have used months old sepia toner without issues too. It is of the two step bleach / redevelop type (ferricyanide/odourless thiourea). I don't know about the two step version with smelly sulphide, nor about the polysulfide one bath sepia toners, but see little reason why they should be tossed immediately after use either if kept properly.

Is it just out of habit or anxiety that a few others here insist on using it one-shot only, or maybe a bit overzealous archival requirements (a bit strange in the light of considering sepia toning is probably already one of the most archival treatments)?
 

Marco B

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Marco

When working on large projects I like the repeatability of fresh chems. I like them to react the same each time without considering extending times for the bleach step which is not a very precise visual experience.

Nothing wrong with your approach Bob... :wink: I know two bath sepia toning can be tricky, especially since the second thiourea bath gives different results in terms of color depending on the amount of sodiumhydroxide accelerator left. There are even "variable color" thiourea sepia toners that actually exploit this property by separating these two components into different bottles to mix up your own variant.

I myself find the unpredictability and variations part of the fun! I like to be surprised a bit now and than, and "go-with-the-flow" even if the results may not be entirely what I initially expected of the toning.
 

MattKing

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I re-use my Kodak Sepia toner.

Just a warning Sanders - Kodak just discontinued it in all sizes!

Matt
 

Vaughn

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Rinse very well between the two baths to make sure you get as much life out of Part B as possible.

Discontinued -- dang. Thankfully I have almost 60 packets in my cupboard -- then I guess I will be mixing it from scratch for the students.

Vaughn
 
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